Wind instruments (and other matters) - meh.

[Daydream believer]

Don’t fancy parking that under sail

Do you think that they would let you even try?
But I bet if it came to it, they could manage it though

 

[Blueboatman]

I bet if it came to it, they could

That would be worth watching too

Have you ever done one of those races starting from sail down , anchor down ?

 

[Frogmogman]

I don’t get the criticism of stackpacks. You can fold them and associated cordage away when sailing. We always do.

 

[Mister E]

I don’t get the criticism of stackpacks. You can fold them and associated cordage away when sailing. We always do.

Now I know what those short straps are for. Thank you.

 

[Daydream believer]

That would be worth watching too

Have you ever done one of those races starting from sail down , anchor down ?

Yes . Tucker Brown used to hold them from the Crouch sailing club at Burnham. Start all below on mooring with hatches closed. Include towing dinghy, dropping dinghy & picking it up later. trick was always to know where to drop it. drop too soon sometimes meant a long trip to go & get it because the next mark was deliberately positioned to catch us out ( & it did the first time ) Great fun for all though. Still won by the usual fast boats, so they applied "special" one off handicaps for the races

 

[Frogmogman]

That would be worth watching too

Have you ever done one of those races starting from sail down , anchor down ?

Yes, the coupe de Porquerolles is on that basis. As it can involve as many as 100 boats, the start requires a very calm person at the helm.

 

[Laminar Flow]

With all due respect it is not just that.
I sail SH and after a long sail, I often find myself arriving at a port tired & on a rolling sea. (I never anchor) I have to get lines & fenders out, dodge pots & sometimes other boats. I start the engine, furl the jib & drop the main. I do not have the time to catch a swinging boom & try to control lots of stiff laminate cloth with sail ties whilst standing on the cabin top or the cockpit seats. Made more difficult by my lifelong difficulty with balance.
With my stackpack I can gather the sail at the mast & have some inbuilt straps to hold the sail until I am ready to start zipping up.
I do not get sections of sail dropping down in front of me when entering port. The lazy lines on their own are insufficient to retain the reef lines etc & I do not intend to fit more.
The effect on the sail is negligible & can be more than offset by being at the helm rather than being a greenhouse relying on an autopilot
To me a stack pack is an essential part of safe sailing.

I understand your point and appreciate your concerns in regards to safety. However, with full battens lazy jacks do the same for us. We head up into the wind, drop the sail and if required I put on a single tie until we are anchored or alongside. Works out pretty much the same as far as I am concerned.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Still are

View attachment 116366

Fair enough, though a few notes to consider: foiled, rotating mast, gap to deck closed for end plate effect and not a triangular plan form that renders the top third behind the mast ineffectual.
I'd be willing to give it a try though, if the foils sticking out into the salon were not so inconvenient and the low boom were not to remove the wheel house every time we tack.

 

[Laminar Flow]

A feature like a stackpack is totally consumer choice and therefore popularity is indeed a measure of its value. Alternatives are available, but still consumers make the choice. Are you saying they are wrong and don't know what they are doing? Smacks of arrogance to me as does your "appreciation" of my contributions. I shall treasure that.

Consumer choice rules OK.

Unless I were (still) in marketing, I would not put too much stake in the wisdom of popularity or the choice of consumers.

For what it's worth, I do actually appreciate your contributions. I may not agree with some of your opinions, but they at least set me thinking and I treasure that.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I note that all the Vendee Globe boats use stack packs. Someone ought to give them a call.

 

[johnalison]

I note that all the Vendee Globe boats use stack packs. Someone ought to give them a call.

The point about stack-packs is only that they save time and a bit of effort. They are not 'better' or worse in any way. One point in their favour is that they encourage sailors to get the main covered at times when I might possibly leave it uncovered, as when arriving somewhere late in the day with the intention of leaving in the morning. Once up and sailing there is not much to choose, except the visual aspect that we had fun with. I do like the fold-down idea though, and I could be converted.

 

[Laminar Flow]

I note that all the Vendee Globe boats use stack packs. Someone ought to give them a call.

Stackpacks come in all flavours. You have the 3' tall (or more) at the mast ridgid triangles that do not require the extra flap to cover the front end or the more low profile variety which can be strapped or rolled to the boom, but need too have the extra cover to take care of the exposed bit a t the mast.
The Vendee variety is rather minimalist by any standards and really not much more than an attachment point for the lazy jacks.
By the time you are fiddling around with extra panels or strapping and unstrapping the thing to the boom every time you might as well stick with lazy jacks and a conventional sail cover and save your money, IMHO of course.

Considering that I have read reports of people using them as storm canvas on occasion, I would venture that perhaps they do have some effect on boat/sail performance.

I know I have a motorsailer, but every little bit helps and it is not necessary to add to the long list of hydro and aerodynamic disregards that even some designers inflict their contraptions with or the nonchalance with which some owners contribute to poor performance.

 

[Laminar Flow]

The point about stack-packs is only that they save time and a bit of effort. They are not 'better' or worse in any way. One point in their favour is that they encourage sailors to get the main covered at times when I might possibly leave it uncovered, as when arriving somewhere late in the day with the intention of leaving in the morning. Once up and sailing there is not much to choose, except the visual aspect that we had fun with. I do like the fold-down idea though, and I could be converted.

Quite. Stack packs were first developed for the Carribean charter trade because customers couldn't be arsed to cut into pinacolada time on arrival to fiddle with the covers and protect the precious sails from the tropical sun.

 

[dom]

I note that all the Vendee Globe boats use stack packs. Someone ought to give them a call.

QED

 

[Daydream believer]

I understand your point and appreciate your concerns in regards to safety. However, with full battens lazy jacks do the same for us. We head up into the wind, drop the sail and if required I put on a single tie until we are anchored or alongside. Works out pretty much the same as far as I am concerned.

Yes but loops from my single line reefing lines from the leech would drop into the cockpit so I can flip them up into the stack pack out of the way to avoid getting throttled by them as the boom swings over my head. Another advantage. The 3 points on the lazyjacks do not hold all the sail. If one has them too far aft they catch on the leech of the sail during the hoist so keeping them forward a little avoids this. However the last bit of the sail would hang down off the boom. The stackpack catches this because it is battened.
My stackpack has a loop & ball system inside to quickly hold it together so if I do not have time to zip it I can hold the sail in it withoput resorting to ties

 

[Laminar Flow]

Yes but loops from my single line reefing lines from the leech would drop into the cockpit so I can flip them up into the stack pack out of the way to avoid getting throttled by them as the boom swings over my head. Another advantage. The 3 points on the lazyjacks do not hold all the sail. If one has them too far aft they catch on the leech of the sail during the hoist so keeping them forward a little avoids this. However the last bit of the sail would hang down off the boom. The stackpack catches this because it is battened.
My stackpack has a loop & ball system inside to quickly hold it together so if I do not have time to zip it I can hold the sail in it withoput resorting to ties

We all figure out what works for us.
As we raise the sail at the mast (main/mizzen), I take a moment to release and hook back the lazy jacks to a cleat on the mast. It is sufficient to release the lee side only, if not straight into the wind, and this solves the prob of battens getting caught.
The reef lines not garotting the helmsman/woman is a wheelhouse benefit I have as yet not considered, to be honest.

 

[johnalison]

We all figure out what works for us.
As we raise the sail at the mast (main/mizzen), I take a moment to release and hook back the lazy jacks to a cleat on the mast. It is sufficient to release the lee side only, if not straight into the wind, and this solves the prob of battens getting caught.
The reef lines not garotting the helmsman/woman is a wheelhouse benefit I have as yet not considered, to be honest.

I have considered moving the lazyjack attachment points out along the spreaders but I don't want to run into problems with varying tension as the boom moves. I seldom have a problem hoisting with the jack in place. I stand astride the tiller and with the engine at idle raise the sail head to wind, pausing to be more careful at the critical points. I do nothing with the stray reefing lines, leaving them tucked into sail folds. When lowering sail, the spare lines are tucked as soon as convenient.

 

[Laminar Flow]

I have considered moving the lazyjack attachment points out along the spreaders but I don't want to run into problems with varying tension as the boom moves. I seldom have a problem hoisting with the jack in place. I stand astride the tiller and with the engine at idle raise the sail head to wind, pausing to be more careful at the critical points. I do nothing with the stray reefing lines, leaving them tucked into sail folds. When lowering sail, the spare lines are tucked as soon as convenient.

Our jacks attach at about the midway way point of the spreaders, about where you would have your flag halyards. At the boom the spider fingers run through eyelets on the boom so that each set may run freely, port to starboard, and no additional stress is put on the spreader as the boom shifts. Essentially, each webb finger is simply a loop.

 

[doug748]

"I note that all the Vendee Globe boats use stack packs. Someone ought to give them a call."


To be fair, they also have 12 metre long booms and sails that weigh as much as a diesel engine. They need all the help they can get singlehanded.

.

 

[johnalison]

Our jacks attach at about the midway way point of the spreaders, about where you would have your flag halyards. At the boom the spider fingers run through eyelets on the boom so that each set may run freely, port to starboard, and no additional stress is put on the spreader as the boom shifts. Essentially, each webb finger is simply a loop.

Yes, mine run through eyes too. I'm not sure how freely they would run in something like a gybe though. I don't think I will chance it as It is not really essential.