Tinto
Active member
Yip, that’s the plan. Redundancy is good. I have two alternators for the same reason
Wind generator and controller recommendations please
- Thread starter Tinto
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dunedin
Well-known member
I think though what you are finding is that this is a relatively rare requirement so rare to find this experience.
Most wind turbines are on older installations. Lithium batteries are on more modern setups. And the Venn diagram circles don’t intersect very often at the moment.
geem
Well-known member
Slight thread drift but as liveaboards for a number of years we really don't need the alternator as part of our daily lives. 720w of solar provides enough power for us. Cooking with gas saves a lot of electrical energy ( its cheap here in the Caribbean and called cooking gas) and we make water with the diesel genset, again saving battery power. Only 15mins run time per day for 50 litres. The genset also allows the use of large power tools and we vacuum clean during the 15 mins generator time. The solar also makes our domestic hot water. A good tank full every day at the moment. If we have a cloudy day the genset can also make us our hot water during its 15mins daily run.
When sailing a long passage, the hydrogenerator makes a great contribution during the hours of darkness. During the day the guardrail mounted solar will run the boat if there is some sun. If not the hydrogenerator can stay deployed and the two systems will fully charge the batteries even with total cloud cover.
Having guardrail mounted solar on passage is way more efficient than a solar arch when sailing. Being able to tilt towards the sun makes a dramatic difference compared to a solar arch facing away from the sun on a leaning monohull or even a none leaning catamaran.
A wind turbine generally contributes little in the scale of daily consumption. We harvest about 2kw per day on the solar. The wind turbine generally doesn't even factor except we are currently in probably the best anchorage in the Caribbean for wind turbine efficiency at the moment. Sat behind a reef with 3000nm of clean Atlantic Trade winds. Currently putting about 80w in to the batteries. This is not normal and we see more like 30w average in other Caribbean anchorages.
My solar and wind/ hydrogenerator both have metering. Both set at zero together. The solar currently reads 1047kw. The combined wind/ towed generator says 224kw. I suspect that at least half of this is from the towed part rather than wind. It's output as a towed generator is significant. On trade wind passage wind turbines don't generally give much output due to the low apparent wind speed but we are using it water mode at that point. These figures include a couple of Atlantic crossings so obviously a significant amount of towed generator
srm
Well-known member
On my previous boat I only had the AirX turbine + engine alternator. Cruising mainly northern UK waters there were times when the wind turbine was not enough to keep up with the boat's power demands. My current boat has AGM batts, AirX turbine and three solar panels, one on an arch and two portable, normally on the forward coachroof at sea but can be moved at anchor. This set up has allowed us to be keep up with demand in Scottish and Scandinavian anchorages for up to a week without extra engine running.
As to wind turbine output to Lithium batts, perhaps your potential batt suppliers are the best starting point for controller specs.
As to wind turbine output to Lithium batts, perhaps your potential batt suppliers are the best starting point for controller specs.
Tinto
Active member
seems to be the way. So my new plan gets around that
Trident
Well-known member
You typically get 35% more power per sq m of panel in the Caribbean than the UK so despite the shorter summer days you will always make more power than the UK. The Med is typically 25% more than the UK. This of course applies to flat panels as its mostly about angle of incidence with more time with the sun near overhead.
Trident
Well-known member
Slightly bending the topic but I'm surprised so many people doubt the ability for an electric galley . We've been running one for a year now, plus two calorifiers heated electrically and Starlink and Macs etc plus all the boat electrics and never gone below 68% on a 700ah battery bank between early March and late November - in summer months we couldn't use enough power to keep the LiFePo4 batteries from reaching 100% by lunch time , which is less than ideal (but after several years now they've only lost around 0.3% capacity) We do have 2Kw of solar panels but that was to allow for winter time use too . Airfryer is super fast and only maxes out at 1400w. The induction hob is very efficient. I rewired to 32a cabling but we do still have to watch what we run at the same time but thats all. Airfry and Induction are fine together but we make sure we do the coffee machine first or after and hot water separately
geem
Well-known member
So you have a massive lithium battery. My battery is bog standard lead and only 450Ah of which I can only use 50%. You have massive solar capacity compared to my relatively large 720w panels on a monohull and you wonder why we doubt the viability of an electric galley. You have to be able to make it to be able to use it. This isnt going to happen on a monohull unless you are super frugal with cooking, don't eat much and like cold food?
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geem
Well-known member
In the Caribbean we sail in winter. 11 hours is the shortest day. In the UK you sail in summer. Depending where you are your longest day is about 18hrs. I think the long days make up for the angle of incidence when comparing output in Caribbean and UK. Also, the high panel temperature here reduces output by about 3 or 4% compared to the UK
Tinto
Active member
I was looking for peoples experiences. Google doesn’t really cover that base.
cagey
Well-known member
May I suggest Superwind relatively expensive but from my experience a superb piece of kit ,good UK agent in north Devon or Somerset, happy to go into detail if wanted.
K
K
geem
Well-known member
Regulator suitable for lithium batteries?
cagey
Well-known member
No idea suggest ask manufacturer they seem to be progressive company and would expect they have kept up to date but as this is an area well out of my knowledge I can’t give an intelligent answer.
Tinto
Active member
Air fryer and induction hob are in our thinking, with 660Ah of lithium.
demand side management is as important as generating capacity as is charge efficiency.
like you, I have been surprised at people doubting it can be done. I have a mate who does it. I suppose it depends on how much you cook.Cooked breakfast, lunch and dinner Is a much bigger energy demand than just a cooked dinner.
we have two fridges but only use one when away from the marina. The one which is always gets used is sea water cooled. Both have new compressors.
Tinto
Active member
Had a look at the website. No pricing though which does suggest having a higher price. No doubting the quality though
Tinto
Active member
It is not as simple as that though.
the boat spends 6 months cruising and 6 months in the yard in winter. I get charged £42 for an electrical connection in the yard to keep batteries topped up while I run the heating/lighting while on the boat doing jobs and give fridges a quick run to lubricate the seals. The power supply in the yard isn’t great either and is prone to tripping out. A wind turbine in winter in the west of Scotland solves that problem.
dunedin
Well-known member
That's fine, but our basic 100W solar also keeps our batteries charged through the winter
Trident
Well-known member
I wasn't aiming at you specifically but several people seem to think its just not possible - we do have a 700ah bank but as I said have NEVER used more than 210ah overnight so that would work with a much smaller bank too. They key is Lithium which as you know charges so much quicker. We do generally only have one cooked meal a day plus toaster etc in the morning and the coffee maker several times a day but we also run a full sized fridge and full sized freezer.
A mono would be more challenging though the tilting panels makes a huge difference as you've said. I would note we don't run a normal electric oven at all - just microwave with grill, air fryer (which is also a pressure cooker, slow cooker and roasting oven etc but smaller) and induction hob. We eat very well, making everything fresh from ingredients generally but the downside is we've not had a pizza for year as that just won't fit in the air fryer
Trident
Well-known member
On the south coast in the UK we get about 14 hours of worthwhile sun in mid June. Obviously by mid November its much less but we still coped without shore power . Some days here last summer hit almost 40 degrees and yes the panel temperatures were poor - even for my main bank that is framed panels with no substrate (they are the cockpit roof) so had a lot of air blowing under. We're heading off to circumnavigate in April so I'll try to keep some records as we move south and through the Caribbean and beyond to see how production changes as we go.
Trident
Well-known member
We have a cooked dinner (though this often used both air fryer and hob) and just toaster or maybe a quick frying pan use for breakfast but also have a full sized 240v fridge and freezer (both A++ rated but still using the inverter) and make two tanks or more of hot water a day from the immersion heaters. We've only wired for 32A (from the inverter) for the 240v circuit and the inverter is only 3kw (peak 6 for a moment) so w have to plan what goes on when and may turn off a hob for a few minutes to microwave something quickly etc but its all second nature now and doesn't limit what we can make. A 5kw inverter would be better but would run 3X the cost and I'd need to run two separate 32a circuits round the boat for 240v to use everything at once but its not really worth it.
Good luck with your install - I don't imagine you'll regret it at all