Wind generator and controller recommendations please

[Tinto]

Have you done the maths on cooking with electric. Uses a lot of kWh. Will need a very large solar arch at a minimum, and perhaps a diesel generator.
What is the payback time on all the batteries and equipment vs perhaps £150 a year on Camping Gas?
Worth reading Jimmy Cornell’s account of his abortive all electric Project Elcano, which was a cost no object new catamaran with lots of solar and hydro power generation, But they couldn’t keep up with the domestic power needs, so stopped and returned to base. I wonder if a couple of Camping Gas cylinders and a backup gas cooker could have saved the voyage.

The issue with Camping Gaz isn’t just price. It is availability. There was none in any of the following last year from August onwards

Milford Haven
Arklow
Greystones
Dublin
Ardglas
Bangor

Apparently, the war in Ukraine has reduced availability. I not going to assume that situation is going to resolve itself anytime soon and would rather be independent. There isn’t much point and sitting there feeling all pleased at not spending money when you can’t cook your dinner. ??

 

[Tinto]

Somewhat off topic, but my boat came with dubious stowage for Camping Gaz bottles, which must be the most expensive way to buy gas. As we wanted to live aboard for at least six months each year I decided that the best way forward was to stow a domestic size gas cylinder fishing boat style on deck. Finally settled on a location in the forward corner of the cockpit that works with a short pipe run through a bulkhead to the galley. One Calor cylinder (about 15kg butane) lasted a season.

Now in Portugal I am using a similar sized plastic cylinder so lighter and no rust stains.

i have the same problem. Locker will only take CG cylinders. 6kg of regular gas here is £28. So it’s less than 1/3 of the price of CG.

i don’t have room in my cock pit for a gas bottle and I don’t want to put it in the adjacent locker with my consumer unit, mains charger etc.

 

[srm]

I can see the attraction of all electric, but the limiting factor is charging. I did see a large Canadian yacht a couple of years back that had an all electric galley plus electric winches and autopilot. No solar or wind, just a very large battery bank and a diesel genny that they ran once a day while cooking the main meal to top up the batteries.

 

[KompetentKrew]

Apart from us with our Duogen, there is only one other wind turbine on a boat. We are in the Windy Caribbean as well. Far more consistent winds than we would ever see in the UK but I still don't rate them as a useful addition to our boat. Too much noise and maintenance over the years.

Do you rate the DuoGen as worth it for its generation of electricity in towed-in-the-water mode, please?

(Sorry for being off-topic to your question @Tinto)

 

[Minerva]

I understand your motivations around electric cooking, have you totted up how many minutes a day you use the gas cooker per day on an average cruise? How many days does a gas bottle last?

A quick google suggests a 907 gas bottle contains around 38kWh of gas. If you divide this number by how many days a bottle will usually last you, it will give you the daily yield you need from renewables just to break even on the cooking load, excluding normal battery consumption for instruments / lights etc.

 

[geem]

Do you rate the DuoGen as worth it for its generation of electricity in towed-in-the-water mode, please?

(Sorry for being off-topic to your question @Tinto)

The Duogen is superb in towed mode. On a good passage it will make 240Ah in 24 hrs. Obviously the faster you go the more it makes. It's easy to deploy and recover. I am less happy with mine in wind mode from a maintenance perspective but mine is a Mk1 from 20 years ago. The current model is so much better as all the design short comings of mine have been ironed out. We have friends with the new version who are very happy. On passage over night it runs our boat maintaining good battery voltage.

 

[geem]

Sadly not compatible with my wiring

You don't have an engine battery?

 

[dunedin]

The issue with Camping Gaz isn’t just price. It is availability. There was none in any of the following last year from August onwards

Milford Haven
Arklow
Greystones
Dublin
Ardglas
Bangor

Apparently, the war in Ukraine has reduced availability. I not going to assume that situation is going to resolve itself anytime soon and would rather be independent. There isn’t much point and sitting there feeling all pleased at not spending money when you can’t cook your dinner. ??

When going to Norway, where zero Camping Gas, we carried 3 full cylinders (one on the bow anchor locker) and lasted 3 months. In UK carry two cylinders, and over last two years with a bit of research managed to locate refill long before second one got below half full. We also carry a portable single ring induction hob for when on shore powers, to reduce gas use. So we have two separate means of cooking.
But there is a big risk of electric only system, with no gas alternative, Electrical systems are getting more and more complex on boats, particularly when go LiFePO4 which needs battery management systems, which cut off batteries if detect any issues.
What happens if have an electrical issue mid ocean.
One gas, one induction might be my preferred configuration.

 

[Tinto]

When going to Norway, where zero Camping Gas, we carried 3 full cylinders (one on the bow anchor locker) and lasted 3 months. In UK carry two cylinders, and over last two years with a bit of research managed to locate refill long before second one got below half full. We also carry a portable single ring induction hob for when on shore powers, to reduce gas use. So we have two separate means of cooking.
But there is a big risk of electric only system, with no gas alternative, Electrical systems are getting more and more complex on boats, particularly when go LiFePO4 which needs battery management systems, which cut off batteries if detect any issues.
What happens if have an electrical issue mid ocean.
One gas, one induction might be my preferred configuration.

I am an energy systems engineer and am rewiring the boat. It would be unusual for two batteries to have a problem. Since I will have re wired the boat there is unlikely to be a problem and if there is I will know how to


Air fryers are efficient and quick, eg a whole chicken in 20 minutes and 40Ah. Fish in 10 minutes and 20Ah

I don’t have room for carrying loads of gas cylinders. Part of the reason for getting rid of gas is to free up a locker, albeit a small one.

i am sure all these alternate suggestions are well intentioned they are not answering the question.

Losing power on a trip to Norway? Being on a diet of sandwiches and biscuits for 18 hours is the least of my problems

 

[Tinto]

You don't have an engine battery?

yes, but that’s not the issue. I have a 50mm2 power bus running from power sources to a Sterling PowerAlternator charger which Distributes current to both battery banks. I don’t want to be running additional feeds not least because space is tight. Similarly I don’t really have room for a battery to battery charger.

 

[geem]

yes, but that’s not the issue. I have a 50mm2 power bus running from power sources to a Sterling PowerAlternator charger which Distributes current to both battery banks. I don’t want to be running additional feeds not least because space is tight. Similarly I don’t really have room for a battery to battery charger.

Really? They are pretty small. Any other solution is likely to be bigger

 

[geem]

i have the same problem. Locker will only take CG cylinders. 6kg of regular gas here is £28. So it’s less than 1/3 of the price of CG.

i don’t have room in my cock pit for a gas bottle and I don’t want to put it in the adjacent locker with my consumer unit, mains charger etc.

We use GRP cylinders that can be filled at gas filling stations. Out here in the Caribbean you can have any bottle filled. We carry a kit to fill between different gas bottles that we carry. Gas is so super easy that we wouldn't be without it. We can cook on the induction hob when on shore power or in backup mode using the diesel genset. Since we carry 6 months of gas in full liveaboard mode, it's not something we worry about. The live gas bottle lives in a cradle on the trasom so no gas locker needed. Our boat was built as all electric cooking. We converted it to gas. The other half is an excellent cook and does a lot of it. Cooking on electric just wouldn't do it since we would need massive batteries to keep up with consumption

 

[Tinto]

Really? They are pretty small. Any other solution is likely to be bigger

do you mean the cables or battery to battery charger is small?

either way, what I now realise I can do, is take the output from the wind turbine charge controller, feed into the power bus along with the solar MPPT and ,aqua gen and then that goes to the input side of the Sterling PowerAlternator charger, which does the lithium battery charge profile. So no need for a second piece of electronics

 

[geem]

do you mean the cables or battery to battery charger is small?

either way, what I now realise I can do, is take the output from the wind turbine charge controller, feed into the power bus along with the solar MPPT and ,aqua gen and then that goes to the input side of the Sterling PowerAlternator charger, which does the lithium battery charge profile. So no need for a second piece of electronics

Not sure you can. The wind turbine needs a controller to stop it over reving as you remove its output at battery full condition. That's why I suggested you feed it to the engine battery and use a b2b. Mine uses dump resistors with a preset dump voltage of 28v(24v system). Some wind turbine controllers will back feed power to stop or slow down the turbine dramatically when the battery is charged.

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Marsrock-Controller-Generator-Charging-Function/dp/B0827Q9MTL

Google search for "Lithium battery wind charge controller" will produce alternatives!

 

[geem]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Marsrock-Controller-Generator-Charging-Function/dp/B0827Q9MTL

I would rather keep solar and wind regulators separate. When one regulator fails you still have the other charging source. Electronics do fail.

 

[srm]

When going to Norway, where zero Camping Gas, we carried 3 full cylinders (one on the bow anchor locker) and lasted 3 months.

Impressively frugal. I skippered a charter yacht for a Swiss party for two weeks in the north of Scotland, six people on board, all meals cooked on board. One large Camping Gaz cylinder used each week.

Sorry off topic again.

 

[srm]

Getting back on topic. My concern would be generating enough power for the galley. Fridge plus nav instruments and lighting I can manage with high output turbine plus three solar panels on my older style 35 ft boat. But I don't see how I could generate significantly more without a lot more space even if I replaced all my kit with more efficient new models. It would probably need a boat wide enough for his and her's wheels to mount two turbines, one on each quarter, plus an acreage for solar.
I did see a report of a new boat with electric motor and cooking using solar panels on the top third of the main. Apparently at anchor the main was left partly raised to collect early morning sun.

 

[Tinto]

Not sure you can. The wind turbine needs a controller to stop it over reving as you remove its output at battery full condition. That's why I suggested you feed it to the engine battery and use a b2b. Mine uses dump resistors with a preset dump voltage of 28v(24v system). Some wind turbine controllers will back feed power to stop or slow down the turbine dramatically when the battery is charged.

That’s what I wrote.

wind turbine into wind turbine controller into Sterling power charger to engine and house batteries

 

[Tinto]

Getting back on topic. My concern would be generating enough power for the galley. Fridge plus nav instruments and lighting I can manage with high output turbine plus three solar panels on my older style 35 ft boat. But I don't see how I could generate significantly more without a lot more space even if I replaced all my kit with more efficient new models. It would probably need a boat wide enough for his and her's wheels to mount two turbines, one on each quarter, plus an acreage for solar.
I did see a report of a new boat with electric motor and cooking using solar panels on the top third of the main. Apparently at anchor the main was left partly raised to collect early morning sun.

to be fair the topic Is “who does a lithium charge controller for wind turbines”

it has drifted off into something different