Winches

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Neil

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My Sadler 25 still has the original winches, and one is very stiff, and even though the circlip is actually missing, it doesn't come apart for lubrication. The other winch has a loose circlip. Therefore I was considering replacing the two jib winches. Since I singlehand a lot, self tailers are attractive, but expensive, and I have managed without so far without. Non-self tailers are less than half the price; why such a differential? What are the pros and cons and between the different manufacturers? Help me pick a pair of winches! (rather it was wenches........)
 
Tbh I don't think there is much difference between the major brands. Try some out by all means but the winch itself is fairly vanilla. What makes a much more noticeable difference is the position of the winch. Get that right and you'll be fine.

Assuming that you do replace, look for winches that are as close a match for your existing set up as possible to avoid having to relead lines. If they are significantly higher or at a different angle you may have issues with getting them to work properly.

Advantages/ disadvantages of s/t. In summary, S/t allows one person to winch and tail at the same time. A "normal" winch doesn't. However a "normal" is capable to dealing with a wider range of sheet sizes. The jaws on a s/t only work for lines between 2 sizes. Go above or below that and it won't grip the sheet. Not normally a problem but need to be aware if thinking of going to dyneema sheets and your s/t winch is already at the margins.

Final points to consider - how do the mounting holes for your old winch and new winch line up? If replacing like for like you may simply be able to unbolt the old and bolt on the new. If they don't then you should really fill, fair and then re drill, ensuring appropriate re-in forcement where required. And may be worth ensuring that all winches are same make. Just makes servicing easier as you are only dealing with one way of doing it
 
ST winches are good if you are going to grind in slowly, but you cannot locate the tail in the jaws until you have surged the slack rope in. When you are single-handed, do you successfully heave the genoa in by hand and only take a couple of turns with the handle? If you are currently able to do this, then a ST winch won't offer much, if any, advantage. I have a slightly bigger rig than the S25 and it needs a bigger guy than me to haul all that sheet in before the load goes on, so I fitted STs but it takes time to get the genoa fully sheated in. Worth noting that changing from Lewmar 30s to 30ST the mounting patern is different so there was some filling and drilling to do, but Lewmar were quick to send me a drawing showing the orientation of the holes for both, so I could plan the job and know I could get it done in one day. Also note that the ST gear ratios are different from the 30.

Rob.
 
Suggest you check the line sizes - all my Andersen winches (ST28, ST40 and ST46) can take 8-14 mm line size (at least 4 sizes in my book), don't know what other makes have.

It'a unlikely that you will find winches that matches the old holes.
When I replaced mine I cleaned out the old holes using a drill, sealed the holes below with packing tape and filled the old holes with epoxy/microfibres mix. No need for much fairing after that just re-drill.
Check that you have room for the new bolts/washers/nuts on the underside.
 
My current boat came with Andersen self-tailers. Generally I find them OK, and they are useful for single-handing, but I have found three downsides. (1) as rob2 says, you need to have some tension in the sheet before the ST jaws grip (2) as a corollary to that, the jaws can slip if tension comes off the sheet. So, for example, if the sail flaps the rope can release enough to slip when tension comes back on. (3) Easing out a bit of sheet is a pain in the neck.

All these may just be features of the Andersen winch. However, if I was replacing them I would probably go for non-ST and spend the balance on two-speed winches instead.
 
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Neil said:
My Sadler 25 still has the original winches, and one is very stiff, and even though the circlip is actually missing, it doesn't come apart for lubrication. The other winch has a loose circlip. Therefore I was considering replacing the two jib winches. Since I singlehand a lot, self tailers are attractive, but expensive, and I have managed without so far without. Non-self tailers are less than half the price; why such a differential? What are the pros and cons and between the different manufacturers? Help me pick a pair of winches! (rather it was wenches........)
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Not sure I'd give up on the old ones yet. If they're a major brand, they'll be pretty robust - it would take a lot of very hard use to create damaging wear and tear. Make it a winter project to get them stripped somehow (you're going to have to do it anyway if you replace them) and give everything a good clean up, then have a long hard look for anything that is beyond-OK worn and see if you can source replacement parts. Lube, reassemble and give them a go. I won't promise they'll be as good as new, but they'll be a lot better than they were.
 
Twister_Ken said:
Not sure I'd give up on the old ones yet. If they're a major brand, they'll be pretty robust - it would take a lot of very hard use to create damaging wear and tear. Make it a winter project to get them stripped somehow (you're going to have to do it anyway if you replace them) and give everything a good clean up, then have a long hard look for anything that is beyond-OK worn and see if you can source replacement parts. Lube, reassemble and give them a go. I won't promise they'll be as good as new, but they'll be a lot better than they were.
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+1 I thought one of my halyard winches was passed it, a good deal of WD40 and I was sailing again. Have not stripped it off the boat but I really should, or at least find a service manual.

I thought I might have to change my sheet winches to ST's (or fit Barton Winchers) when I bought this boat 20m2 of head sail. I am not going to bother now, not certain if they would make it any easier....
 
A lot of very good info from everyone on this thread.

With a larger headsail than my boat - max 135 sq ft & I do without using winches at all usually - I'd also go for 2 speed rather than ST, even when the No.1 genoa is loaded in a strong breeze I can still get a bit of sheet in.

Of course winches will need serious backing pads and at least stainless penny washers below if not pre-drilled stainless plates; I'd be a little concerned about the missing & loose circlips on the OP's winches, as while they're immovable when you want to sort them, sods' law might mean them coming off just when you don't want !
 
Seajet said:
A lot of very good info from everyone on this thread.

With a larger headsail than my boat - max 135 sq ft & I do without using winches at all usually - I'd also go for 2 speed rather than ST, even when the No.1 genoa is loaded in a strong breeze I can still get a bit of sheet in.

Of course winches will need serious backing pads and at least stainless penny washers below if not pre-drilled stainless plates; I'd be a little concerned about the missing & loose circlips on the OP's winches, as while they're immovable when you want to sort them, sods' law might mean them coming off just when you don't want !
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I don't see a 2-speed in the smaller sizes? eg Lewmar size guide suggests a No. 7, single speed only
 
Perhaps you could fit a 16 which is c 5in at the base?

BTW, I singlehand a lot and self tailing winches are not a priority for me either. It may be different if you are a serious, round the cans, racer.

I would look out for something used, they come up quite a lot as people upgrade to ST.
 
If you are going for 2-speed winches remember that ideally you should be able to rotate the winch handle fully. My winches are too near the guardrails, so I use the ratchet facility that a single speed gives you.
 
doug748 said:
BTW, I singlehand a lot and self tailing winches are not a priority for me either. It may be different if you are a serious, round the cans, racer.
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Quite the opposite, I'd have thought - if you're racing mob-handed then there'll always be someone to tail for you and the extra gubbins on the top may hinder a really slick release. Self-tailers are for where one person has to manage the whole thing on their own.

Pete
 
I stripped down one of my very old winches last Sunday at sea, ok it was a flat calm, it is really quite easy and now working as good as new. A lot cheaper than the £150 on e-bay I've seen. For some reason the previous owner liked to lubricate it with grease :mad: :mad:
 
>My Sadler 25 still has the original winches, and one is very stiff, and even though the circlip is actually missing, it doesn't come apart for lubrication.

Which brand are they? I've never known a winch that doesn't come apart for servicing. The stiffness indicates that the grease has gone hard and that is maybe why you think it wont come apart, brute force would do it. If you can't do it find a metal fabricator with a press to get it apart. We didn't have selftailers we just used a tugboat hitch also called a tugmans hitch.
 
+1 for stripping/cleaning old winches. Do ours twice a year to keep in good nick, so if your's haven't been done in a while you'd be amazed at the difference. Dead easy job of a few minutes only, but be careful not to drop bits over side. Spare clips should be available.
 
Davegriff said:
+1 for stripping/cleaning old winches. Do ours twice a year to keep in good nick, so if your's haven't been done in a while you'd be amazed at the difference. Dead easy job of a few minutes only, but be careful not to drop bits over side. Spare clips should be available.
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Let me pass on a tip by Jim Edwards, at one time Harken's guru in the UK.

"For winch servicing, have two identical but cheap plastic buckets, which 'nest'. Cut a hole in the bottom of one of them just large enough to fit neatly over your winch. Now when you dismantle your gunged-up old winch, loose parts which drop out fall into the bucket and not over the side. Now they can be transferred, with the other parts removed, into the 'good' bucket and cleaned - safe inside the cockpit or taken home to the workbench - before re-assembly....."
 
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