Winch servicing - how long per winch, and which tools? Tips welcome...

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gregcope

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Hi,

My son and I did our winches today. Slightly embarrassed to admit I had not done all of them recently. I did the 3 main ones (halyard+2 genny ones) last year. The others vary.

How long does it take you to do one winch?

Ours took over 4 hours. Which feels too long. However the ones that had not been done recently tool allot longer as the grease has hardened allot and took some effort to get off, compared to a wash in petrol with paint brush.

I think a stiffer brush than a paint brush would help, although that might risk petrol everywhere?

And finally one with one winch I cannot remove one set of gears as it is too close to the coaming. Must winches been installed in a certain orientation compared to the genny track? Can remove it and spin it round 45deg so that the gear slots face outboard and are not constrained by the coaming?

Happy winter maintenance all!
 
Too thickened grease sounds like wrong grease :(

As for tools:
1. an umbrella or tarpaulin to shield small springs from going over the side, a sailbag to envelope mast mounted winches before attacking them
2. shaving foam if you have winches with loose small ball bearings
3. an old tootbrush should be enough to brush away old grease
4. Lanocote or similar to coat steel bolts before reassembling
5. Paper/masking tape to wrap around bearings with vertical, cylindrical rollers before taking them off the central axis.

How long does it take? Too long imho :(
 
My biggest mistake was to allow the degreaser I was using to clean the fixed part to touch the surrounding gel. My boat is 20+ yrs old and the gel was badly stained by it. The main constructive tip is to oil the ratchet pawls, never grease them and use the correct high pressure grease. I reckon an hour a winch as I had to refer to the manual, never having done it before. These are Lwemars that strip from the top so no need to unbolt.
 
Harken two-speeds: basic service 15-20 minutes, though every couple of years you have to remove winches to get at second bottom set of pawls, PITA as for coachroof mounted one it means substantially removing headlinings below. Once removed 25 minutes, but getting that one off and back again is often two hours.

Sparing with grease, only thin oil on pawls and springs.
 
20-30 minutes per winch ........ IF you remember to cut a circular hole out of the bottom of a paper bag or cardboard box and use this to surround the winch.
If not add the time taken to get replacement parts which have leapt off into the water :encouragement:
 
Another way to prevent pieces ending up in the sea is to drape a large piece of cling film over the winch. You can put your hands under it and also see what you're doing.
 
It takes as long as it takes. These brilliant bits of engineering work in a harsh environment and you want to rush a simple job.

I am often amazed at how much abuse these bits of kit get and still work.
 
Read the manual for the winch you HAVE. instructions re. grease and oil vary. Some recommend grease on the pawls. Yes, I've checked (Antal and Maxwell, I believe, but I could be wrong).

Interestingly, many of the manuals have not changed suggestions in over 50 years, although the qualities of grease and oil have changed a LOT.
 
Circlip pliers are essential for my winches.

A cloth draped around the base of the winch catches any bits.

I never use grease - I've tried various types - as it gums up the ratchet pawls - light oil like 3 in 1 is fine for a season.
 
I have the lewmar grease and oil; grease is old branding (10yrs plus?) and looks like lm2 (brown). Oil looks like 3in1.

I sparingly grease the gears and spindles. I lightly oil the pauls and their slots.

Person who did some of them last used lots of grease, including pauls.

Its the dried / old grease in he valley of the gear teeth that takes the time to clean.

I do take this seriously. I have seen winches fail. Either the top fly off, or the paul springs fail and winches unwind. Former was funny (bar the bill to replace), the latter very dangerous.
 
Takes us about 35 minutes per winch. Use paraffin or white spirit, a toothbrush and a collection of rags to clean. Inspect pawls, change if significant wear, change springs as a matter of routine. Light greasing of gears and bearings, light oil on pawls. Reassemble. Our genoa winches disassemble without removing them, coachouse roof winches have to be removed to complete the disassembly, but it’s made easier by a removable bit of headlining.
Only tools are a couple of spanners and a large screwdriver. We do the job about every two years.
 
IF you've got hardened, old grease, it can be very difficult to remove, especially from things like roller bearings. I've used pretty much everything people suggest, up to and including a car parts cleaner using some sort of caustic solution, and none of them have been totally effective, though the car part cleaner did best. It's easy enough to remove superficial grease - at the worst, you can scrape it off with a plastic blade! But grease in inaccessible parts of things like roller bearings is tricky, in my experience.

Having seen winches like that, I am VERY careful not to over-grease them, and to ensure I use the right grease! The hardened yuck on mine is a legacy that came with her. The general advice is to use the merest smear of the appropriate winch grease.

Concerning time, they are easy to dismantle and reassemble; that only takes maybe 10 minutes a winch, and mine don't have many parts that can get loose - the only bits that could "fly" are the pawl springs, and they are safely captive in the relevant gears , so it is easy to disassemble them in an ice-cream tub or similar. Mine have roller bearings, not ball bearings, so the moving parts are safely captive in cages. The only tool required is a screwdriver.

Cleaning them is a different matter, and a toothbrush seems to be the most effective tool, with a brass wire brush for tougher dirt - not to be used on plastic parts! Almost any degreasing solvent will work - petrol or white spirit seem to be best; meths worst. But hardened grease such as you describe can be very difficult to remove.
 
I took a couple of days to do my two Gibb 2 speed ST25s including removing so I could access the bottom bearings. I did them at home at my leisure soaking all the bits in paraffin and a toothbrush to remove the hardened grease. I used Morris's water resistant grease (because that's what I had) and 3 in 1 oil. After they'd been done, they were a delight to use.
 
The first service when they obviously hadn't been done in years took around 45 minutes each. A lot quicker since! Make sure you have spare pawl springs as they're quite fiddly. I clamp them with long nose pliers to slip them into place. Lots of youtube vids available.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
IF you've got hardened, old grease, it can be very difficult to remove, especially from things like roller bearings. I've used pretty much everything people suggest, up to and including a car parts cleaner using some sort of caustic solution, and none of them have been totally effective, though the car part cleaner did best. It's easy enough to remove superficial grease - at the worst, you can scrape it off with a plastic blade! But grease in inaccessible parts of things like roller bearings is tricky, in my experience.

Having seen winches like that, I am VERY careful not to over-grease them, and to ensure I use the right grease! The hardened yuck on mine is a legacy that came with her. The general advice is to use the merest smear of the appropriate winch grease.

Concerning time, they are easy to dismantle and reassemble; that only takes maybe 10 minutes a winch, and mine don't have many parts that can get loose - the only bits that could "fly" are the pawl springs, and they are safely captive in the relevant gears , so it is easy to disassemble them in an ice-cream tub or similar. Mine have roller bearings, not ball bearings, so the moving parts are safely captive in cages. The only tool required is a screwdriver.

Cleaning them is a different matter, and a toothbrush seems to be the most effective tool, with a brass wire brush for tougher dirt - not to be used on plastic parts! Almost any degreasing solvent will work - petrol or white spirit seem to be best; meths worst. But hardened grease such as you describe can be very difficult to remove.
Click to expand...

Stuck on grease is what took the time.

I think i could strip, clean, grease/oil and assemble in maybe 15mins on a good day.

One which base is fitted so that i cannot remove the gears so i might reposition it by rotating 50degs or so. Will find some instructions.
 
The main thing is not to use too much grease. I use Lewmar grease on my Lewmar winches and apply it with a Lewmar brush which is something like a cheapo paintbrush. Only the minimum covering is needed.

I found that household paraffin removed old grease easily. I rinsed the paraffin off with methylated spirit, which itself can be rinsed off with water.

As said above, you need to avoid getting grease on the pawls but brushing it on should avoid this. I very seldom take the pawls out because they are such a fiddle to get back without losing the springs, but the odd drop of oil is necessary.

A simple service for a two-speed winch taken slowly takes 20-30 mins. If you haven't worked out that you need to lift the centre spindle slightly before putting the lugs back it could take you hours.
 
jwilson said:
... though every couple of years you have to remove winches to get at second bottom set of pawls, PITA as for coachroof mounted one it means substantially removing headlinings below.
Click to expand...

Yep, a poor design compared to Lewmars. I've resorted to using WD40 (��) every 6-8 weeks, in lieu of heavier lubes applied annually, which can be squirted into inner pawls to avoid removal of the winch from the deck. Makes it a 10 minute job per winch.
 
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I wonder if the "old hard grease" we are talking about is old conventional, non-synthetic grease? I have a hard time believing, based on testing, that a good synthetic would harden in the time you will likely own your boat. They'll do 10 years standing on their heads, under these conditions, based on industrial experience. They don't oxidize.

So are we worried about... old news?

I also wonder about sewing machine (or winch) oil. That stuff will evaporate in a year in the sun, leaving the pawls nearly dry. Why not gear lube? And why do Anderson and Maxwell advise a light coating of grease on pawls? Because they know their grease will not gum up and because their grease is lighter than most.

(I wouldn't say these things if I had not tested them.)
https://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/44_3/features/Penny-Pincher-Pawl-Lube_12373-1.html

As for winches that must be dismounted for service, but still claim the need for annual service... boycott them. I would never buy one. Tell them so.
 
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