will you lose right to NHS treatment if you leave the UK?

[sunsailor]

Life couldn't be better, you are retired and living a care free life on a boat in the med. Then one day you collapse and are taken to a local hospital where they patch you up but tell you that you have a serious medical problem. If you are a UK national would you be able to return to the UK for treatment? Are there any time limits on how long you have been abroad before treatment is refused? What if you are still paying voluntary NI stamps? Maybe still own a UK house? Anyone know the score on this one or have any personal experience?
Thanks
Simon

 

[Melody]

If you move abroad you lose the right to NHS treatment. I attended an outpatients department in the UK for a broken collarbone a few years ago. I was told I could have an x-Ray and consultation but, if I needed surgery, I would have to wait until I was back in Greece, where I live.

I was quite surprised as I still pay UK tax and draw a UK pension but I've lost my NHS entitlement to anything but emergency treatment as an EU citizen.

If you remain resident in the UK and are paying NHS contributions you should be okay but I think technically you're not supposed to be out of the country for more than six months at a time.

I'd check with the NHS if I were you and they can tell you definitely what your circumstances entitle you to.

There are some differences between Scotland and England by the way.

 

[Sarnia]

If you move abroad you lose the right to NHS treatment. I attended an outpatients department in the UK for a broken collarbone a few years ago. I was told I could have an x-Ray and consultation but, if I needed surgery, I would have to wait until I was back in Greece, where I live.

I was quite surprised as I still pay UK tax and draw a UK pension but I've lost my NHS entitlement to anything but emergency treatment as an EU citizen.

If you remain resident in the UK and are paying NHS contributions you should be okay but I think technically you're not supposed to be out of the country for more than six months at a time.

I'd check with the NHS if I were you and they can tell you definitely what your circumstances entitle you to.

There are some differences between Scotland and England by the way.

That's appalling, given that the NHS treats people from outside the EU, who have never ever contributed to the service for HIV, at huge cost to we the taxpayers.

 

[Tranona]

The rules about the amount of time you can spend outside the UK and potentially lose access have been in place for years. However, in practice they do not affect many people, being specifically aimed at sections of the population who live in two locations.

The important thing to do is to keep aup the appearance of being in UK with permanent address, on the electoral roll and registered with a GP. Access to elective procedures and consultation is through GP referral and A&E is available to anybody with no checks. Within Europe the EHIC is usually adequate, but does not necessarily cover electives unless they are the result of emergency.

You can augment that with insurance if you wish but ordinary travel insurance is not usually suitable and most polices rely on you using the EHIC and you do not automatically get private treatment or repatriation. You can get specialised insurance from bishop Skinner, Topsail and Pantenius which will cover sailing activities and may offer wider cover than relying on EHIC.

If you are generally in good health EHIC should be adequate in Europe, but travelling farther afield extra insurance becomes more necessary.

 

[GrahamM376]

That's appalling, given that the NHS treats people from outside the EU, who have never ever contributed to the service for HIV, at huge cost to we the taxpayers.

Appalling yes and it happened to a friend of ours. Very important as Tranona says, to maintain residence somewhere or you will not even be able to open a bank account or have an ISA if seen to be away more than 6 months. We even had our car insurers refuse to renew as, being out of the country more than 6 months, were not resident as far as their rules said.

 

[rivonia]

If you move abroad you lose the right to NHS treatment. I attended an outpatients department in the UK for a broken collarbone a few years ago. I was told I could have an x-Ray and consultation but, if I needed surgery, I would have to wait until I was back in Greece, where I live.

I was quite surprised as I still pay UK tax and draw a UK pension but I've lost my NHS entitlement to anything but emergency treatment as an EU citizen.

If you remain resident in the UK and are paying NHS contributions you should be okay but I think technically you're not supposed to be out of the country for more than six months at a time.

I'd check with the NHS if I were you and they can tell you definitely what your circumstances entitle you to.

There are some differences between Scotland and England by the way.

All pensioners who get a state pension and live within the EU get FREE NHS treatment. I attach a statement from the UK Govet.




People living in an EEA country or Switzerland.
As is the case already, most people, who live or work in another EEA country or Switzerland will continue to get free NHS care using a European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) issued by the country they live in. This means the NHS can reclaim healthcare costs from the original country of residence.

UK state pensioners who live elsewhere in the EEA will now have the same rights to NHS care as people who live in England. This applies to all pensioners who receive a UK state retirement pension and registered for healthcare in Europe with an S1 form.

However, people who live elsewhere in the EEA or Switzerland who are not working and are under the UK retirement age should either use their EHIC if they’re entitled to one, or make sure they have health insurance if they need NHS care when visiting England. Otherwise they will have to pay for their care. This includes former UK residents, and ensures that people who already live and work in the UK do not end up paying through their taxes for visitors who are not economically active.

 

[duncan99210]

One thing to bear in mind is that if you move back to the UK, you become eligible for full NHS cover again. So, if you become aware of a complex health problem that you'd rather have treated in the UK, you will need to re-establish residence in UK by getting a UK address, registering with a GP etc. Then you can access the NHS without payment.

By the way, I think that the absence limit is in fact only three months, not six.....

Best and simplest answer if you want to maintain access to the NHS is to keep a foothold in UK by means of a UK postal address etc as Tranona has said above.

 

[lindsay]

Two things worth !ooking at by Med liveaboards

1. The NEW regs for uk expat use of the nhs that are applicable from April 6 THIS YEAR. news and intrepretatkons are only just starting to come out

2. The relatively new, April 2013, regs on UK STATUTORY TAX RESIDENCE, which still seem to be largely unknown. A 100 page tedious, but not difficult read document that is especially useful for any uk liveaboard who has been out of the country for a long time and who has a minimal footprint there.

 

[RupertW]

The practical rule is that if you are still registered with your GP then there won't be a problem. Most people seem to maintain this by having an address in UK and always quoting that (and being able to pick up correspondence sent there.

After 3 months away the GP should cancel the registration but most don't for much longer. Most of the money the NHS gets from overseas patients is in fact from UK nationals who have moved away, particularly working expats, and mostly for orthopaedic problems, or coming back to give birth. Come back 3 months early and register with a GP and it's all fine. Come back just before the birth, unregistered and with plans to return and the bill from the NHS is staggering - usually paid by your home address country if in EC, or (hopefully) by insurance taken out to cover it.

A year or two ago I got rid of a small team in a hospital whose job was to find foreign patients and charge them. The team cost about 100k a year and brought in about £120k, but almost all from UK nationals. About another £200k was identified but impossible to prove they weren't citizens and then get the money. The onus is on proof of foreign residency, not proof that you are British, so if somebody swears blind they live here but have not got a passport, driving licence etc. and if they respond to letters sent to the address they claim as theirs then there is not a lot that can be done with the current rules.

Tiny tiny monetary loss to the NHS compared to the overall spend (£1 in £12,000 from the last figures), but has a high profile in many peoples' minds.

 

[GrahamM376]

All pensioners who get a state pension and live within the EU get FREE NHS treatment. I attach a statement from the UK Govet.




People living in an EEA country or Switzerland.
As is the case already, most people, who live or work in another EEA country or Switzerland will continue to get free NHS care using a European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) issued by the country they live in. This means the NHS can reclaim healthcare costs from the original country of residence.

UK state pensioners who live elsewhere in the EEA will now have the same rights to NHS care as people who live in England. This applies to all pensioners who receive a UK state retirement pension and registered for healthcare in Europe with an S1 form.

However, people who live elsewhere in the EEA or Switzerland who are not working and are under the UK retirement age should either use their EHIC if they’re entitled to one, or make sure they have health insurance if they need NHS care when visiting England. Otherwise they will have to pay for their care. This includes former UK residents, and ensures that people who already live and work in the UK do not end up paying through their taxes for visitors who are not economically active.

That's fine if you are a resident in another EC state, they issue the EHIC so, if you return to the UK for treatment, it can be billed to the issuing country. OTOH if you're moving around on a boat and not resident anywhere within the EC, then you have problems.

 

[vyv_cox]

We lived in Holland for seven years and transferred our medical details to a local doctor almost immediately. While there I had a couple of operations and various other treatments. When we got back to UK I visited my GP, same one as previous, who commented 'we haven't seen you much lately, you must be keeping well!'. They had not noticed we had left even though we had notified them of our address change.

 

[jimbaerselman]

<snip> They had not noticed we had left even though we had notified them of our address change.

I wonder if their subvention is reduced when someone leaves . . .

 

[jimbaerselman]

Quite a bit of this subject is covered in the "Time Abroad" section of my web site, and more specifically under the heading of "administrative residence", a common concept in many continental countries. Links to government and EU sources are given.

On health entitlements for EU citizens, see http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/health/when-living-abroad/health-insurance-cover/index_en.htm. . Most live aboard yotties would be retired and drawing pensions, so open up the "pension" tab on that. You'll have to get your EHIC from the country which pays your pensions!

The complexity of the EU provisions for different classes of people, and the different interpretations possible, leaves a bit of a nightmare for health administrators. The NHS has often been a bit out of step with the EU provisions. I'm not surprised that RupertW found it more economic to shelve the issue, rather than spending megabucks (Mb) to recover Mb/2 !

 

[rivonia]

Please do open this link from the UK Govt. It does explain it.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rules-to-improve-overseas-visitors-contributions-to-nhs-care

The very last paragraph clearly states that anyone returning to the UK will get IMMEDIATE full NHS treatment. This is from the the Govt.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Rivonia,

Thanks for that link! It's an enormous improvement on previous publications - quite a few of which varied from trust to trust! My site is amended!

 

[chrisgee]

I`m away from 3-4months at a time and need various heart drugs whilst away. My GP gives me 3-4 prescriptions dated a day or 2 apart to take to the chemist before I leave the uk. Has worked for years with no problems.

 

[Tony Cross]

I have a friend (no, I really do!) who insists that he was told that if you live aboard a UK flagged yacht you are still resident in the UK (on the basis that a UK flagged yacht is UK territory). It sounds like wishful thinking to me but does anyone know the real position on this?

 

[KellysEye]

>I have a friend (no, I really do!) who insists that he was told that if you live aboard a UK flagged yacht you are still resident in the UK (on the basis that a UK flagged yacht is UK territory). It sounds like wishful thinking to me but does anyone know the real position on this?

If you leave the UK and go long distance sailing you remain a UK resident but not in the UK, unless you apply for not resident and not ordinarily resident after four years for tax purpose, which we did.
You do lose NHS and doctor rights, even with a holding address for mail.

 

[Birdseye]

Life couldn't be better, you are retired and living a care free life on a boat in the med. Then one day you collapse and are taken to a local hospital where they patch you up but tell you that you have a serious medical problem. If you are a UK national would you be able to return to the UK for treatment? Are there any time limits on how long you have been abroad before treatment is refused? What if you are still paying voluntary NI stamps? Maybe still own a UK house? Anyone know the score on this one or have any personal experience?
Thanks
Simon

As far as I can tell from SWMBO's mother ( aged 90 and was a spanish resident until recently) you likely wont even be asked in a hospital and even if you are its enough to say you are a UK resident. After all they treat lots of foreigners without asking anyway. I really wouldnt worry about it

 

[sunsailor]

Please do open this link from the UK Govt. It does explain it.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rules-to-improve-overseas-visitors-contributions-to-nhs-care

The very last paragraph clearly states that anyone returning to the UK will get IMMEDIATE full NHS treatment. This is from the the Govt.

Thanks for all the replies. The above link details everything. Pensioners are definitely OK now even if they moved abroad permenantly. In my case (I am not a pensioner) I would not be away from the UK for more than 6 months so I would still remain an ordinary resident of the UK. I've read previous reports claiming that if you leave the country for more than 3 months you lose your right to NHS treatment but this does not seem the case now. It does not mention any time but only that you must be a resident.
Simon