Will the marine world follow the 4x4 trend?

4x4 get real tree huggers

I make no apologies to any tree hugging loon for driving a 4x4.

1. We live in the country
2. Up in the mountains
3. We tow a lot
4. We drive it on the land - never gets stuck
5. It's snows sometimes during the winter at this altitude
6. and certainly freezes a lot up here
7. I like the visibility due to height off the ground
8. Driven carefully it DOES offer us better protection
9. I would have been killed 2yrs ago if I had been in ANY
car when I was hit at speed by an idiot. 4x4 saved my life
10. I don't care what they cost to run - tough!

So I wish begrudgers would just stop moaning. We may switch this year to the Lexus Hibride 4x4 (ie electric/petrol), pity it's not diesel though, but it's 0-60 is 7secs - wow! Would never drive X5 or RR, their just 'wanna be' cars. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Sure I agree Urban 4x4 is really stange, dont understand it myself, bet you most don't even have tow bars and have never been off road. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif But if people can afford it then thats their choice
 
Surely, the marine equivalent of a 4X4 is a boat that has a thirst for resources that exceeds “basic” requirements.

Therefore, a craft with more than one engine would qualify, as would anything BIG.

The inescapable conclusion is that marine world met the aspirations of "4X4 man" long before the 4X4 became a fashion statement and 4X4 man thought he needed one.

Massive engines and lots of speed epitimises sort of boat that appeals to the Romford navy, a 4X4 with a massive engine and lots of bling epitimises the vehicle of choice on A118.

At weekends they fill up marina car parks with 4X4's and battle it out on the water, instead of the A118.

Nuff said really
 
I\'m awake ?

So why am I reading so much crud on YBW today , yesterday , day before ????? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Honest - the whole 4x4 argument is flawed on both sides ....

There are small ones, medium ones and large ones ... there are tanks, conventional style cars with AWD, 4wd, 4x4 etc.

A common mistake is to consider them the same - which they certainly are not. AWD in fact for most a "loose" term for FWD with limited transfer (often only as much as 15% actually goes RWD .... when a front wheel slips etc.).

Google for AWD and the details start emerging ...

As to size comparisons ... the average 4x4 has poor side, close front / rear vision and leads to awful positioning / parking ... until you get used to one - it is a nightmare - and let's be honest ... many of these chunks of cosmetic metal are driven by women ....

The point of the 4x4 has been lost to most - they are a Status symbol ...

Let's look at size and power needed .....

4x4 Club in Hampshire ... Has all sorts of machines and one of the most useful they have ... (the club rescue machine in fact !!) is a Suzuki Vitara .... 1.6 litre. It's bog-standard without fat-boy tyres etc. It has a manual box .... It pulls out Land-Cruisers, Touregs all-sorts ..... It does not take a stonking great engine and tank to do a job like that ... it takes low gearing and tyres that bite .... a fact that average 4x4 with its Sand-spec tyres does not do.
The humble Land-rover survived for donkeys years with the long-stroke 2.25ltre petrol engine ... 14mpg loaded up or empty ... could pull a house down with it. Only when "market" dictated change of engines did they beef them up with bigger power plants ... but the old 2a still was the standard set.
 
Re: I\'m awake ?

Good to see someone with sense, and the ability to read through others posts- it is NOT Pandas and the like being talked about here, as SBC says, 4x4s are a wide a varied breed, and unless you're really keen to be pedantic, it's commonly accepted what type of vehicle is being referred to. So, go on, be Daily Mail readers put your heads in the sand and deny that. And the argument (of the green lobby etc) is about urban/unnecessary use, not working vehicles and such.
And yes, of course large 4x4s can have good fuel consumption figures in circumstances, but while crawling through urban congestion? And if the technology is so good in them, why can't the manufacturers put in the smaller, lighter cars? So an X5 makes good figures, but an M3 doesn't? Tell BMW to get their ar$es in gear (Guess the matter of the R1200GS is even more interesting). To move a mass, a force is used, to move more mass, more force is needed. And Cayennes, Toueregs, etc are bloodi big, and never give me room on my bike (when I risk using the road- how dare people walk on the pavement!).
Consider consideration.
Jem.
 
Re: Is it a myth or fact ?

[ QUOTE ]
Range Rover 4.6 as example ... you'll be lucky to see better than 10mpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Dunno where you get that idea from - my current petrol rangies deliver 18.2 and 16.4 MPG respectively - never seen one go below 10 MPG. 16 MPG is still pretty horrendous.

Steve
 
Re: I\'m awake ?

Nigel is just going over the same points as have been aired endlessly.

Arguing about the existence of a class of vehicle and the advisability of owning one is pointless.
If I want to run an Austin 7 it's my perogative. As long as it's legal, and I use it within the law, it's nothing to do with anyone else.

Any other arguments are to do with the drivers themselves and they'll be the same inconsiderate divvies whether driving a Kia Rio or a Bentley Continental (now if you want to argue about unused specifications.............)
 
The 4x4 owners have done a fine job of making themselves ridiculous

Half the posters here can do no better than to use childish terms of abuse, like "tree huggers"and "brown rice eaters" whilst saying, like the average two year old, "I can do what I like"!
 
Re: I\'m awake ?

[ QUOTE ]
So why am I reading so much crud on YBW today , yesterday , day before

[/ QUOTE ]

Because there are people out there who have the mind set of "Ban 4x4s", They are urbanites, they never get their boots muddy, never see the animals and crops they eat, totally out of touch with reality, and in their unreal existence the 4x4 has no purpose so they want to outlaw it.

What they fail to understand, like the recent poster who wanted to ban smoking but then accepted that after-dinner cigars are OK, is that there are few absolutes in life. OK, ban 4x4s from towns - am I going to buy a saloon car / city car just for when I come into town - am I sausages. Those townies and poseurs who buy 4x4s have reasons to do so, others may think their reasons invalid, but they are entitled to freedom of choice, as soon as we start denying that we might as well all go back to the Soviet system.

Steve
 
Re: The 4x4 owners have done a fine job of making themselves ridiculou

[ QUOTE ]
saying, like the average two year old, "I can do what I like"!

[/ QUOTE ] Unlike some on here, the average 2 year-old seems to have grasped that you can do as you like as long as it's legal. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
\"There is no such thing as \"society\"?

Actually, you cannot do as you like as long as its legal.

For example, if you are invited to a friend's house for dinner, you could choose to say how ugly your hostess was, eat with your fingers, and then defecate on your host's carpet.

This would be quite legal. It would also be an outragous breach of good manners.

Social customs change. It is becoming a breach of good manners to own and drive a 4x4.
 
Re: \"There is no such thing as \"society\"?

Right! oh so right

So you do just want to talk about 4X4’s well some people with farms need them the other 99% of the population don’t.

The main issue with them is efficiency yes there are some that give reasonable fuel consumption; that is around 35 mpg, but that’s exceptional. The same sized vehicle without the transfer box and the extra dif would probably do over 50mpg driven sensibly – (like a sensible merc sprinter driver if there is such a thing). So the 4X4’s that we see being frugal are not really 4x4’s they have all sorts of stuff to make them 2wd most of the time but they still cart the paraphernalia about to make them 4x4’s and keeping all that machinery turning costs fuel – hence the fuel saving devices electronic and otherwise. Freewheeling hubs save about 15% to 25% on fuel but the transfer box still turns. My old Suzuki (1984) MPG went from 25 to 35 with hubs disengaged (it was a site vehicle bought to do a job where 4wd was essential it was sold in 1986 to expensive to run). Brakes on 4x4’s are lamentable unless you fit road tyres so what’s all that about? An off road vehicle with road tyres, and road tests that emphasis the on road abilities over the off road – the world has gone mad. Stability? They should have the AVS on a head up display that reduces as speed increases, and reduces the speed, dynamically most of them leave a lot to be desired – by the way I am not talking about the Impreza – the best car I have ever owned and over the years that includes Merc’s, BMW’s and Jags but it was the most difficult to justify – so it went - 29 mpg? The car it replaced was Neon (a much under rated vehicle) and that did 42 mpg driven at similar speeds. (why buy a neon? If you do 52,000 miles a year why buy anything else? No faults, only servicing and depreciation on the Neon was £7000 over three years – how much for a 3 year old beemer with 158,000 on the clock?).

The 4X4 is a fashion Icon it says “successful”, I was in America earlier this year and 4X4 is starting to say “MUG” out there, no doubt the same will be true here soon.
 
Re: The 4x4 owners have done a fine job of making themselves ridiculou

What worries me is that after the lib dems efforts a week ago what is Mr Cameron & co. going to say on this matter next week ?
PS Mines a disco, colours nailed to the mast (ok, flagpole)
 
Re: The 4x4 owners have done a fine job of making themselves ridiculou

[ QUOTE ]

PS Mines a disco, colours nailed to the mast (ok, flagpole)

[/ QUOTE ]
Your disco's got a mast? How does that work?

Visions of James May sailing a Triumph Herald come drifting through my mind /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: The 4x4 owners have done a fine job of making themselves ridiculou

Come on you lot, dont give up now, only another 350 'views' to go plus another 4 pages of drivel to be a record! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I think people who drive 4 x 4's in the city are poofdas!

Will that help? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re The 4x4 owners have done a fine job of making themselves ridiculous

I fear you said it all, here:

The current 4 X 4 as we know it is a fashion or fad. Started when Land Rover decided to make a 'posh' off road vehicle, the Range Rover. Today everyone makes a 4 X 4 'off roader', some with more off road capability than others. Some just a design icon, Lexus and Porche for instance.

As the vehicle became a fashion accessory for the 'Chelsea set', it was seen as a mark of success, to be able to afford to buy and run one. Today the number of 4 X 4's bought and used as commercial off road work horses is much in the minority.

As the number of these vehicles increase on the road, a good many of us have been the victim of poorly driven, parked bad mannered ownership, this sticks in our minds more than if it had been someone driving, say a Daewoo, just because of the perceived size.

Do I own one? No. Would I own one? No. I would'nt own one because I dont need one. If I had a caravan to tow, loads of equipment to haul, had a farm then, yes I probably would. Taking the kids to school in one? Its just a trophy isnt it?
 
Re: \"There is no such thing as \"society\"?

[ QUOTE ]
It is becoming a breach of good manners to own and drive a 4x4

[/ QUOTE ]


Interesting view...

Whatever you may or may not think about large cars, to describe someones choice of car as "a breach of good manners" is surely a ridiculous statement. Since when is one's car a matter of manners - Taste maybe, but manners???
 
Re: \"There is no such thing as \"society\"?

[ QUOTE ]
The 4X4 is a fashion Icon it says “successful”, I was in America earlier this year and 4X4 is starting to say “MUG” out there, no doubt the same will be true here soon.


[/ QUOTE ]

The Americans have seen fuel costs treble because their price isn't composed of 90% taxes like ours and the oil price rises have had an even more visual effect. However their 4x4s are even bigger, they have trucks and pickup 4x4s too with double cabs and the like, now these are serious gas guzzlers. However the USA is a huge place and in a lot of areas a 4x4 means you can still get to work in winter (applies even to city dwellers) not to mention the big farming states where dirt roads are common outside of town.

SWMBO is American and we are there regularly, often when the weather is still wintry. I rent a 4x4 because I prefer the more comfortable driving position and because if the weather does turn nasty as it sometimes does then the 4x4 rules.

Now a strange thing in the USA is that despite the fuel price rises, diesel cars and 4x4s are rare beasts even though the diesel would be more economical. Indeed the Hyundai Santa Fe I have on order as a diesel automatic is only available in the USA as a V6 petrol.

I'm afraid I didn't see any trend away from 4x4s in the USA at all, you might imagine fuel prices would have a big effect on sales but like the diesel option is ignored I bet the most they might do is consider a more economical model come trade in time. Of our immediate family there, 3 out of 4 drive 4x4s as the main car and 2 have one also as the 2nd car, none of them are farmers and they live in town in areas where snow is seen every winter but only say like it might be in the north of England.

As for USA success displayers, the 4x4 is not THE style Icon IMO, yes you see the expensive Range Rovers, BMWs, and so on but just as many Lexus saloons, Jaguars, Cadillacs, Mercedes and the like. Joe public lower down the food chain are the main 4x4 buyers.

All of which is totally irrelevant. Please don't tell me what car 'I need' or 'should' have and in return I won't tell you what dishwasher to buy.
 
Re: \"There is no such thing as \"society\"?

In the car park next to my disco is a BMW 6xx yy convertible. It is longer than mine, as wide if not wider, admittedly lower, will use twice as much fuel, rather tarty & blinged with tat to the eyeballs (IMO). It will probably reach 160mph with ease. why ? Have a go at them too please. Mine only does 0-60 in 19 secs & struggles much beyond 70 & is generally quite innocuous. It does 36 mpg. It also wades happily through 18'' of water, a daily necessity for me.

Be careful what you wish for you anti's, boats are not in the main a necessity either.
 
Re: \"There is no such thing as \"society\"?

No, I did mean "manners"; I did not mean "taste".

De gustibus non est disputandum, but manners are a form of social constraint, like custom, or to take a stronger example, taboo, where the sanction is not prison but disapproval, ridicule, ostracism and in extreme cases violence.

Manners change with the times; Victorian manners would be inappropriate now.
 
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