Wightlink rescues MacGregor...

planteater said:
here are the figures for 2005

http://www.nationalwatersafety.org.uk/statistics/2005/index2.htm
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a quick look shows 14 deaths on boats (coastal and sea) this includes power as well as sail since we are discussing macs. Not at all what was announced a couple of threads up.

I wouldn't mind betting that a bit of digging will discredit those figures you have just shown too, such as death by illness / heart attack but on board at the time type fatalities, will have to read further...

Thank you for posting
 
DogWatch said:
a quick look shows 14 deaths on boats (coastal and sea) this includes power as well as sail since we are discussing macs. Not at all what was announced a couple of threads up.

I wouldn't mind betting that a bit of digging will discredit those figures you have just shown too, such as death by illness / heart attack but on board at the time type fatalities, will have to read further...

Thank you for posting
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From those figures I think it's fair to say that sailing is a pretty safe hobby - even in a MacGregor! More people managed to drown themselves driving.

In terms of heart attacks etc. I would expect to see trailer/sailers come out fairly badly in any detailed analysis. They are much harder on the body than a marina based yacht with electric winches/windlass etc.
 
DogWatch said:
a quick look shows 14 deaths on boats (coastal and sea) this includes power as well as sail since we are discussing macs. Not at all what was announced a couple of threads up.

I wouldn't mind betting that a bit of digging will discredit those figures you have just shown too, such as death by illness / heart attack but on board at the time type fatalities, will have to read further...

Thank you for posting
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I was going back about 15 years and using the widest definition. The data are not easy to get as they are a compilation from various sources and they do not follow any pattern because the numbers are so small.

The point I was making was that because the numbers are so small sailing is very "safe", but more importantly every accident is thoroughly investigated through the courts (coroners and possibly criminal) and MAIB that there is no chance of there being "hidden" accidents involving Macgregors.

There is no support for the statements made by some that these boats are "dangerous". they may not be to everybodys' taste, but that is no reason for applying any sanctions.
 
Tranona said:
There are anywhere between 30 annd 50 people on average that die in boating related accidents in the UK every year. A tiny number, and almost never the result of a design failure (I say almost never because there are some rare cases, usually involving racing boats). And none of them have involved a Macgregor as far as I know.

It is not a question of waiting for something to happen, it is the combined wisdom and experience of responsible people who set standards that result in acceptable products.

You may be surprised to learn that I agree with you... I feel that you may have more faith in the process than I do... and my concern doesnt really come from the accidents as shown... more from the Macgregor website itself... and the information contained about the operation of the boat...I dont understand why it doesnt operate like the previously mentioned dehler.

"And your implication in your disgusting statement that people who buy such a product and then die, (which they do not) deserve it and are better not here has no place in a serious discussion on safety."

That is not my implication at all.... you need to go back and read the post more carefully... What I have said is very clear... that I was not interested in discussing that arguement... as it is clearly as you describe above.

This argument was put forward by Orbister... who also has failed to read my posts before commenting on them.



I would have been keen to see more comments from MacMan in regards to the operation of the boat... and the reasoning behind its ballast system, how easy it is to operate... the preformance implications... etc....

His pointing out to me that the keel was a centerboard versus adding stability was a good point... all the lift keel boats that I have sailed have had a increase instability with the keel down... (Ala Bene 311/ Southerly 110...)


Anyways, I am off to do some sailing.

Thanks for the discussion... it has been a big step in the right direction away from the winging about the forums...:)
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if a boat is designed to capsize, it would be better if it does not have the false sense of security of a cabin, we all know its normal for sailing dinghies to capsize & be righted
 
Anyways, I am off to do some sailing.

Thanks for the discussion... it has been a big step in the right direction away from the winging about the forums...:)[/QUOTE]

I have just come back from a delightful few hours sailing in my "old" boat, which would probably not even get into category C (because it does not have a self draining cockpit) nor even into category B if I put that right, but would then fall foul of the AVS requirement. However, it comes from the board of one of the greatest designers of its time, has carried me safely all over the Channel for the last 30 years and sister ships have circumnavigated.

Somewhat perversely I also own a Category A Bavaria which is fantastic for what it is, but I think I would be happier in the "Ocean" in my old boat - if I ever summoned up the courage!
 
forecast (according to the cameraman) was 34-47 knots ... sorry, but the film just doesn't correspond to such a wind.

you can
1) hear the cameraman talking - no way could you do that in 50mph winds - well not without specialist kit)

2) only a couple of waves were breaking ... yes there were "large" waves - but they certainly aren't indicitave of 50mph winds...

sorry - I don't believe the claims.
 
The cameraman was Mr MacGregor himself. For some reason I don't believe a word of it.

Those seas look no worse than a force 5/6 personally. And as regards to the wave height, I think Adlard Coles rule of divide by three is ever relevant, so 6 foot waves, not 18.
 
Isn't this a MacGregor on the further pontoon?

MacGregor.jpg
 
peter radclyffe said:
if a boat is designed to capsize, it would be better if it does not have the false sense of security of a cabin, we all know its normal for sailing dinghies to capsize & be righted
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There does seem to be a rather odd idea going around that Macgregors are designed to capsize. They are not: they are designed to be sailed with ballast, just as many other boats have been designed to sail with ballast. Sailing such a boat without ballast and then being surprised when it falls over would be like sailing a lifting-keel boat with the keel up and being aggrieved when that fell over.
 
aknight said:
You haven't answered my point, but no, thanks, I won't be following your advice. I won't be sailing in a MacGregor at all, and I'll choose my cats based on initial stability.
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So you object to a Macgregor because it might go to 91 degrees and stay there, but have no problem with a catamaran that would do precisely the same, simply because it gives less warning?

Hey, it's your choice, and unlike many people here I would not for a minute want to ban the sort of boat you want to sail!
 
aknight said:
According to your profile, you have a Westerly Jouster, so I'm guessing stub keel, drop fin, about 1000 lbs ballast maybe. No I think we'll let you keep that, provided you don't find the quick release button for the ballast.
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My Jouster has a proper, decent deep fin and bulb. It's my Hunter which has the drop keel ...
 
photodog said:
Tranona said:
"And your implication in your disgusting statement that people who buy such a product and then die, (which they do not) deserve it and are better not here has no place in a serious discussion on safety."

This argument was put forward by Orbister... who also has failed to read my posts before commenting on them.
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No it wasn't my dear pot! I said that people who operated boats wrongly had to take responsibility for the results of their errors.
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gandy said:
Isn't this a MacGregor on the further pontoon?

MacGregor.jpg
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I just love the reverse launching tehnique of the bloke with the dory. Sod the aforementioned tub with Scottish Ancestry.....whats it called again..a Macdonalds or something.

Tim
 
orbister said:
There does seem to be a rather odd idea going around that Macgregors are designed to capsize. They are not: they are designed to be sailed with ballast, just as many other boats have been designed to sail with ballast. Sailing such a boat without ballast and then being surprised when it falls over would be like sailing a lifting-keel boat with the keel up and being aggrieved when that fell over.
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no its not , because its quicker to drop a keel
 
A lot of people here are forgetting that this is sold as a trailer sailer with the ability to be a fast powerboat, tow a skier etc. As such it would be nearly as safe unballasted as most half cabin powerboats of similar length and beam. One of the problems common to all trailer boats (sail or power) when they get to this length is that the beam is constrained by what can be legally towed. I think it's 8' max and this makes them relatively narrow and slab sided.

I have a friend with one and he loves it. It's a great trailer boat for someone who wants to do a bit of fishing and an occasional sail. He would never think of trying to beat to windward, that's what the big outboard is for. But he has sailed it around the whitsunday islands with no problems and towed it there in 3 days. It would take me a month to sail my bav44 to the whitsundays, and another month to sail back.
 
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