Why is Ocean Theory so Expensive?

RobbieW said:
I'd argue that, for a navigator, astro is simply a variant on a transferred position line / running fix. I didnt feel the need to really understand the mathematical theory involved in taking a bearing from a celestial object when I took the course, and still dont. I found that creating my own proforma for the steps involved helped me to understand the process - and I think it is the process that is the key to using the technique.
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Agreed, but many have never understood that, even after doing their YM theory, which is mandatory before going onto the YMO course.
It's not just about sextant stuff, it does include passage planning, weather, TRS, etc, which shouldn't be boring.
 
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roblpm said:
Is there anyone under 50 on this thread?

How much longer will people attend these courses for? How much longer will the rya demand astro? Seems doomed to me. People will routinely have 20 gps devices on their boat. And in the future the chips will have galileo and the Russian one too.
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Not just the RYA.
If MCA qualifications are the target, the Ocean ticket is the starting point for driving a super yacht.
 
Out of interest, I've just looked at the syllabus from the course workbook (which I did more than 10 years ago so it may have changed).

The minimum course time is 40 hours, 22 of which are about subjects unrelated to Astro navigation.
 
>Not sure how being able to sail a dinghy helps you understand the subjects covered in Ocean Theory. The question is not about whether it is necessary, but how best to learn - and whether a structured course is good value. So your contribution is absolutely useless to the OP.

I said we chartered two or three times a year. The places were the Seychelles, Greece, Turkey, Malta, Corsica and Sardinia, the Balearics, the Caribbean chain from Puerto Rico to Grenada and the Bahamas, most of those more than once. We sailed 2,500nms encountered gales, big swells and seas and obviously used a GPS. If that didn't qualify us for long distnce saling I don't know what does.
 
alant said:
Doubt any Ocean instructor would get £1500 for a 5 day course.
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No they would not, but there are a lot of other cost involved, unless you want to run the course on a beach with no tables and chairs, a bucket 100 meters away in one direction and fire 100 meters in the other with the materials to make a hot drink if you bring your own kettle.

Most companies run on the simple rule of one third costs, one third overheads, one third profit.
 
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JumbleDuck said:
OK, sextant fans, you're taking a noon sight, the boat lurches and you drop the sextant overboard. Now what?
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OK, GPS fans, There's a massive solar storm (see Carrington Event) that swamps GPS signals and knocks out a lot of the satellites? Dropping the sextant can be made less likely by having it on a lanyard. Solar storms are (in the long term) unpredictable - we can get a few hours warning one's coming our way, but it is only a few hours.
 
KellysEye said:
>Not sure how being able to sail a dinghy helps you understand the subjects covered in Ocean Theory. The question is not about whether it is necessary, but how best to learn - and whether a structured course is good value. So your contribution is absolutely useless to the OP.

I said we chartered two or three times a year. The places were the Seychelles, Greece, Turkey, Malta, Corsica and Sardinia, the Balearics, the Caribbean chain from Puerto Rico to Grenada and the Bahamas, most of those more than once. We sailed 2,500nms encountered gales, big swells and seas and obviously used a GPS. If that didn't qualify us for long distnce saling I don't know what does.
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You are still missing the point. This is NOT about whether it is necessary to be proficient in astro to sail long distance, but about the cost and suitability of courses.

As you do not seem to know how to do it, nor have been on an RYA course, why did you bother to post anything?

You have only done what thousands of others have done, so why bother posting as it is irrelevant to the topic of the thread.
 
Sandy said:
Most companies run on the simple rule of one third costs, one third overheads, one third profit.
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One third wages...

The bottom line is that you charge what people will pay, if they won't pay enough then you don't do it.

The really egregious one is the VHF course that we're basically compelled to do by law.
 
JBJag27 said:
One third wages...

The bottom line is that you charge what people will pay, if they won't pay enough then you don't do it.

The really egregious one is the VHF course that we're basically compelled to do by law.
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Your wages = my costs.

Agreed you need to charge a sensible rate, and if you can't make a profit then you don't do it. Keeping your costs low is the key.

Given your comments about the VHF course would you say the same about, say, driving lessons?

I was taught radio how to use a radio by the military and cringe at what I hear on Ch 16 sometimes - long rambling descriptions of things that if thought about could be said in a third of the time and fully support the requirement that people have at least some training.
 
Sandy said:
Your wages = my costs.
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Except with a one-man-band training operation the wages and the profit are basically interchangeable.

Sandy said:
Given your comments about the VHF course would you say the same about, say, driving lessons?

I was taught radio how to use a radio by the military and cringe at what I hear on Ch 16 sometimes - long rambling descriptions of things that if thought about could be said in a third of the time and fully support the requirement that people have at least some training.
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I think you may have had rather more impressive training from the military than most of us have had on the SRC course. But I meant the price really, the exam fee alone is 60 quid.
 
laika said:
At least if you take a backup sextant everyone will agree that you've got two sextants. The same does not apply if you take a backup GPS.
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The problem is that you also need to take a back up sun in case the main one is obscured by cloud at the critical times - and finding the space to stow it on a small boat can be a problem
 
Tranona said:
As you do not seem to know how to do it, nor have been on an RYA course, why did you bother to post anything?

You have only done what thousands of others have done, so why bother posting as it is irrelevant to the topic of the thread.
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Threads drift, you know, and we are now well and truly on the subject of the need for astronavigation as well as the cost of courses in it. Your confirmation that thousands of people have successfully sailed long distances without astronavigation is therefore on-topic.
 
laika said:
At least if you take a backup sextant everyone will agree that you've got two sextants. The same does not apply if you take a backup GPS.
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I carry two GNSS receivers, one of which uses GPS and the other of which uses GPS and Galileo, so I have two satellite systems available to me.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Threads drift, you know, and we are now well and truly on the subject of the need for astronavigation as well as the cost of courses in it. Your confirmation that thousands of people have successfully sailed long distances without astronavigation is therefore on-topic.
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His first irrelevant post was long before the thread drifted, and the second is equally irrelevant. He can't do astro so maybe he needs to go on a course to find out what it is all about.
 
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