Why have my lights gone out?

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Something strange is happening to the halogen ceiling lights in 2 of the cabins on my boat. 4 out of 5 ceiling lights have failed in the master cabin and 2 out of 3 in a guest cabin. They didn't all fail at once but over a period of 2-3 days. All other lights in the cabins are fine and throughout the rest of the boat. All of the cabin lights are connected to a single trip switch and that hasn't tripped at all.
Has anyone got any idea of what's happening?

 

[sarabande]

unlikely to be wired in series, so what about a power surge ? If you have an ipad you can get an app which simulates an oscilloscope

http://www.oscilloscopeapp.com/

which might be useful to track any surges when the boat is connected/disconnected from mains or genny.

 

[jfm]

Something strange is happening to the halogen ceiling lights in 2 of the cabins on my boat. 4 out of 5 ceiling lights have failed in the master cabin and 2 out of 3 in a guest cabin. They didn't all fail at once but over a period of 2-3 days. All other lights in the cabins are fine and throughout the rest of the boat. All of the cabin lights are connected to a single trip switch and that hasn't tripped at all.
Has anyone got any idea of what's happening?

Halogen? Very retro Mike

Are they 24v bulbs and are they seeing more 28.8v now you have that Victron thing fitted? (I don't remeber exactly what Victron gizmo you installed, sorry). 24v bulbs have a somewhat limited lifespan at 28.8 and tend to be manufactured very consistently so a whole load can die within hours of each other (though, logically, you'd think the accum hours of the different cabins would differ)

Alternatively, if your light circuits have a 28.8 - 24v transformer, ignore what I'm saying

It could just be that the bulbs have reached the end of their life. As i say the manufacturing is VERY consistent so it would be unsurprising for several lights in one cabin to die of natural causeswithin a few hours of each other

 

[Momac]

Not quite the same thing I know but our home kitchen ceiling light has four bulbs. If one of the halogen bulbs failed at least one of the others followed soon after so we always ended up replacing the full set. The halogen bulbs were short lived so I fitted LED replacements and they have lasted at least a couple of years and still working. But my wife hates the bright white light.
If you go for LED's on the boat go for warm white (or whatever they are called). LED's and halogen must not be mixed on the same set of lights.
I believe there is a UK company called Bedazzled who do LED replacements for small halogen bulbs. I haven't used them.

By the way I seem to recall reading that power spikes from low voltage DC circuits can be more significant than from mains AC .


.

 

[abraxus]

I've used Bedazzled and their prices seem good and they were helpful when I had to call about something. I replaced all of my cabin halogen bulbs with LED's from them and got the "warm" white as they're not as harsh. I'm pleased with them.

 

[DougH]

When I read the title I thought you had been involved in a punch up

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Halogen? Very retro Mike

Are they 24v bulbs and are they seeing more 28.8v now you have that Victron thing fitted? (I don't remeber exactly what Victron gizmo you installed, sorry). 24v bulbs have a somewhat limited lifespan at 28.8 and tend to be manufactured very consistently so a whole load can die within hours of each other (though, logically, you'd think the accum hours of the different cabins would differ)

Don't mention the V thing 'coz its playing up again but yes I'm now seeing upto 28V on the battery voltage indicator when the V thing is charging. This is certainly more than the original Mastervolt charger was pushing out so it could be the voltage increase which is killing the lights although this didn't happen last year when I had the V thing fitted.
Yup halogen is a bit retro and if I keep the boat another season, I'll change to LED

Thanks to other posters for replies

 

[DAKA]

Don't mention the V thing 'coz its playing up again but yes I'm now seeing upto 28V on the battery voltage indicator when the V thing is charging. This is certainly more than the original Mastervolt charger was pushing out so it could be the voltage increase which is killing the lights although this didn't happen last year when I had the V thing fitted.
Yup halogen is a bit retro and if I keep the boat another season, I'll change to LED

Thanks to other posters for replies

I had a spate of halogens failing but the bulb didnt actually blow.

the ?steel? pins were held by the ?brass? bulb holder and the pins corroded and the bulb went out.

After replacing the bulbs I realised it was corrosion and cleaned the pins, then the bulb holders by soaking in coke (the fizz acid cleans oxidation very quickly).

Now I use SMD LEDs and havent had a problem since.

Guessing someone has been sleeping in the cabin without adequate ventilation, condensation has corroded your pins.
or perhaps port holes left open without screens has allowed damp salt air in.

Try these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LOT-10-pc..._Lights_Fairy_Lights&var=&hash=item2a1c51d47e

 

[jfm]

Don't mention the V thing 'coz its playing up again but yes I'm now seeing upto 28V on the battery voltage indicator when the V thing is charging. This is certainly more than the original Mastervolt charger was pushing out so it could be the voltage increase which is killing the lights although this didn't happen last year when I had the V thing fitted.
Yup halogen is a bit retro and if I keep the boat another season, I'll change to LED

Thanks to other posters for replies

Ferretti should have, but might not have, fitted a regulated 24v supply to the lights, to transform the 28v or whatever to the 24v that the halogen bulbs want. These are expensive bits of kit though, and they might have decied to cut this corner. In which case, if the V thing has increased your light circuit voltager then bulbs will start popping

I don't want to drift this thread onto LED lighting but you know my views on the Chinese LEDs that Bedazzled and others sell. Sure the "warm white" colour can be ok but the CRI isn't. If you want beautiful LED lighting you need to buy proper fixtures with proper LEDs by Cree/Phillips/sony

 

[wakeup]

JFM is right re CRI and only using reputable chip from Philips or Cree. You need the CRI to be more than 85 to be anywhere near what you get from a halogen. Also the Chinese stuff is not usually what it says on the tin, i've seen many of these devices measured in lab and they don't give out what they purport. Not so with the Philips or Cree based products.

 

[DAKA]

Just for clarity Mike, I dont sell or have shares in any LED company.

I simply posted my experience and what I had done to solve the failing Halogen problem.

The LED pins appear to be square profile aluminium, they have not suffered corrosion issues.


The new bulbs do not get hot .
I have no idea what the CRI rating is ( I expect between 85-92 but have no way to check).

My saloon lighting is split into two circuits

port
starboard



I used to have cheap LEDs (mini bulb type) in the starboard side for use at anchor, they were awful and perhaps the same as jfm and wakeup have experience with.

I changed the cheap LEDs for the SMD LED 1.2w warm white

they are perfect and we use them all the time and not just while at anchor, the halogens tend not to be used now.

I keep meaning to change them but they are working well since the coke treatment.

 

[jfm]

CRI rating is ( I expect between 85-92 but have no way to check).

The eBay ones @£3 each? You're in dreamland if you think they have a high CRI.

LEDs are not a commodity:

- With tungsten or halogen, it pretty much is what it is, and there isn't much you can do at the design stage to alter the characteristics of the light drastically.

- With LEDs, different designs produce substnatially different light. There is stuff churned out zillions a day for a few pence in china which finds its way onto eBay and is perfectly good for many applications, but not interior lighting where you want beautiful ambience, and then there are carefully designed fixtures with high end LEDs that are a world apart. In particular, nice ambience is not about colour temperature as much as it is about CRI. Lots of people are being duped into thinking their LEDs are nice, just becuase they are "warm white". Hard to explain in words of course, and it's better to see high-CRI LEDs for real

Sorry Deleted User, as I said I didn't want to drift this thread into a big LED discussion as that has been done elsewhere

 

[DAKA]

The eBay ones @£3 each? You're in dreamland if you think they have a high CRI.

LEDs are not a commodity:

- With tungsten or halogen, it pretty much is what it is, and there isn't much you can do at the design stage to alter the characteristics of the light drastically.

- With LEDs, different designs produce substnatially different light. There is stuff churned out zillions a day for a few pence in china which finds its way onto eBay and is perfectly good for many applications, but not interior lighting where you want beautiful ambience, and then there are carefully designed fixtures with high end LEDs that are a world apart. In particular, nice ambience is not about colour temperature as much as it is about CRI. Lots of people are being duped into thinking their LEDs are nice, just becuase they are "warm white". Hard to explain in words of course, and it's better to see high-CRI LEDs for real

Sorry Deleted User, as I said I didn't want to drift this thread into a big LED discussion as that has been done elsewhere

I accept you have researched and accept you know about cri ratings.



Even if Mike hasnt got the same problem with the halogen ?steel? pin corrosion I suffered then others reading this may have it in the future.


The ?aluminium? square pins of the ebay LEDs cure a problem at minimal expense, with minimal effort.

Mike should know if his pins were still silver or blackened where they came into contact with the ?brass? when he removed them.

BTW although you feel this is thread drift the ones I directed Mike to work on a voltage range between 8 volt - 40 volt which may also cure your diagnosis of Mike's irregular voltage .

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

OK I have bitten the LED bullet and bought a selection of different LED bulbs from my local chandlery and have chosen one type that seems to offer the warmest light and now I have a bunch of them on order. I have no idea what CRI rating they are (they cost about £8 each) but to my eyes the light they give is indistinguishable from the previous halogen bulbs so the SWMBO is happy and so far the 3 I've fitted haven't blown either. Btw, the chandlery said they had a voltage rating of 10-30V. Would that be correct and does that mean that LED bulbs are more capable of handling 28.8V than the previous halogen ones?
Yes, jam, I think you are right regarding the V thing. I have been watching the control panel more closely and it does seem to charge up to 28.8V. I doubt very much that Ferretti fitted a 28.8-24V transformer since the original fit Mastervolt charger never gave more than about 26.5V. Indeed I never had to change a single light bulb on my boat until I had the V thing fitted last year. Any idea why the Victron charges to such a high voltage compared to the old Mastervolt?