Why has the market not embraced alloy anchors?

A reminder about the rules. Be civil; keep the arguments to the technical point and do not make personal attacks on posters.

No further warnings. Abuse will be rewarded with beaching.
 
thinwater said:
Actually, that is "shilling," or to be a shill, which is a lot like "spruiking," is not related to British currency, and is not a compliment.

(urban dictionary)
shill
A person engaged in covert advertising. The shill attempts to spread buzz by personally endorsing the product in public forums with the pretense of sincerity, when in fact he is being paid for his services.
Who are you shilling for?
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Thanks,

It is not a word with which I am very familiar (actually not familiar at all, I could not even spell it!) - I had assumed it had American origin, as it was quoted by an American (you might guess the context). I did not know it had a connotation of remuneration within the meaning.

Jonathan
 
There is a review just out on the, steel, Anchor Right Excel on Morgan's Cloud

https://www.morganscloud.com/2019/02/03/sarca-excel-anchor-a-real-world-test/

Unfortunately you need to be a subscriber to see the full review (which I am not) but if you know anyone who subscribes they would be able to send you a copy. The steel Excel is identical to the alloy version that we have been using as our primary for 5 years or so. Morgan's Cloud are not keen on alloy anchors - except for Fortress in mud - which they make abundantly clear!

Jonathan
 
that was a great little read, whilled away a very wet afternoon in Scotland,, ii think i may just get one for my catamaran , thanks all. R
 
Pete7 said:
That's a good idea, our FX16 is stored in its box, but takes a couple of minutes with the spanners to assemble. easy to lift out with one hand and chuck overboard.
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This is especially for 'pete7'.

Consider what I've done with both my Fx-16s:


42164410142_157278a15c_z.jpg



Replace the provided nuts and small bolts with these:


46725140684_1c92995c43_z.jpg



You don't need tools. Fingers are sufficient. Add in a couple of nylon cable ties, also stored in the bag, and less than 2 minutes does the job. Securely.
 
For one thing the eye bolt with that size thread ( looks like 12m / 1/2” ) will be considerably larger , perhaps prohibitively so.
 
cherod said:
For one thing the eye bolt with that size thread ( looks like 12m / 1/2” ) will be considerably larger , perhaps prohibitively so.
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Yes. It was kinda 'experimental' and I didn't want a pair of humungous lifting eyes which might do something unattractive to the burying characteristics of the anchor. Perhaps wing nuts might be better, but I had these items handy. I'm guessing there's not likely to be much load on them.
 
What one can do ( as I have done on occasion ) is drill out the eye bolt to fit a larger ( eg 12 mm ) rod / bolt minus head and weld round the top .
 
cherod said:
What one can do ( as I have done on occasion ) is drill out the eye bolt to fit a larger ( eg 12 mm ) rod / bolt minus head and weld round the top .
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Or simply tap it.

I like the idea of eye bolts. Tightening or loosening with a screwdriver is easy and if needs be - you can use Loctite, or cable tie (as suggested) to secure.

Jonathan
 
“ simple “ and “ tap it “ is surely a contradiction in terms !! , yes eye bolts are great things but if they are too big then they are too big ..
 
I've been anchoring much more since I got to the med with a vulcan NG anchor. It worked well at home in kelp but I've found that in seagrass you have here it has difficulty in truly setting - I had a knock on my hull from a rib in Ibiza to tell me that I was moving quite quickly from the anchoring zone. The vulcan sets very, very well in sand and the clarity of the water and a snorkel means you can see how deeply it does set during strong winds. It didn't set the other night after a number of attempts and I presume it was thin mud because no seagrass or mud came up on it. Or, at least it did set until I put full reverse power on and then the boat accelerated backways. I should have tried a fortress there but it was getting late and I went elsewhere. Also I would have to have had the fortress set up with chain and rope, which I don't currently have organised. That would have dealt with thin mud, but not sure what would cope with seagrass. My thinking now is only to drop the vulcan in sand. The conservationists would be happy with that anyway.
 
cherod said:
“ simple “ and “ tap it “ is surely a contradiction in terms !! , yes eye bolts are great things but if they are too big then they are too big ..
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Sorry - but I'm no professional engineer (or fitter) nor make much claim as a handy man but I find tapping a thread 'easy' - I had foolishly assumed most reading PBO would find it even easier :)

Jonathan
 
dgadee said:
I've been anchoring much more since I got to the med with a vulcan NG anchor. It worked well at home in kelp but I've found that in seagrass you have here it has difficulty in truly setting - I had a knock on my hull from a rib in Ibiza to tell me that I was moving quite quickly from the anchoring zone. The vulcan sets very, very well in sand and the clarity of the water and a snorkel means you can see how deeply it does set during strong winds. It didn't set the other night after a number of attempts and I presume it was thin mud because no seagrass or mud came up on it. Or, at least it did set until I put full reverse power on and then the boat accelerated backways. I should have tried a fortress there but it was getting late and I went elsewhere. Also I would have to have had the fortress set up with chain and rope, which I don't currently have organised. That would have dealt with thin mud, but not sure what would cope with seagrass. My thinking now is only to drop the vulcan in sand. The conservationists would be happy with that anyway.
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Moving to a seabed more to your liking, or the liking of your anchor, is good seaman ship. No anchor is perfect - some work better in different seabeds. Your practice seems very normal. Weed should be avoided anyway - it is environmentally friendly to prefer to anchor elsewhere - if possible. Sand, of course, is cleaner (when you retrieve) than mud.

If you ever take any pictures of your Vulcan set - I'd, and I am sure other members, would love to see them. Vulcan is not yet common and has very few reviews.

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
Moving to a seabed more to your liking, or the liking of your anchor, is good seaman ship. No anchor is perfect - some work better in different seabeds. Your practice seems very normal. Weed should be avoided anyway - it is environmentally friendly to prefer to anchor elsewhere - if possible. Sand, of course, is cleaner (when you retrieve) than mud.

If you ever take any pictures of your Vulcan set - I'd, and I am sure other members, would love to see them. Vulcan is not yet common and has very few reviews.

Jonathan
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I may have bought the first vulcan in the UK. I tried a Rocna and a Vulcan and the latter was a better fit - the windlass is very far forward. My friend bought the Rocna the next day. I am happy with it - usually sets like glue.

I have two fortresses of different sizes, both brought back from the US in luggage. However, not really sure how I should be using these since I don't want to go back to 50m lengths of nylon rope. Where would I store that, I think. I have been considering a reel of webbing. How do others set these up?
 
dgadee said:
I have two fortresses of different sizes, both brought back from the US in luggage. However, not really sure how I should be using these since I don't want to go back to 50m lengths of nylon rope. Where would I store that, I think. I have been considering a reel of webbing. How do others set these up?
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According to more than one of the anchoring 'gurus', a reel of high-strength line such as 8mm dyneema should do perfectly well for occasional kedging work. It's plenty strong and light enough and, protected by anti-chafe tubing where warranted, should prove entirely satisfactory. I have one of these....


48069923168_2b1be522be.jpg



I also use a short length of chain from the anchor, about 12 feet, although there are those who'd suggest there's no good reason not to use a similar length of flexible galvanised steel wire rope.
 
^^ I, for one, do not understand.

* To kedge you need to be able to forcefully pull the rode in. This suggests powerful reel winch (not what is illustrated above) or a whole lot of turns on a winch (since Dyneema is slippery.
* To anchor you need shock absorption, which Dyneema has effectively none. I have seen Dyneema used for shore ties, but that works because waves can't come from that direction, by definition. Of course, a nylon bridle or snubber could provide that.

And there is no reason for the steel cable; just use a chafe guard. But I don't understand how to use Dyneema for any rode purpose (other than shore ties, which I would categorize as long mooring lines, not rode).

I don't see why 150' of line is a big deal. Climbers carry that around as a small part of their backpack load. Moreover, extra rode for kedging and other uses is simply a part of any boat over about 25 feet, isn't it?
 
There is a tendency to use the word 'kedge' to mean a spare or second anchor - not meaning an anchor with which to kedge. But, real, kedge anchors also tend to be small - I strongly believe a second anchor can replace the primary - so it should be rated for the same sized yacht - people lose anchors.

There is a general rule that your rode should be easy to abandon - most suggest that it be attached to a 'U' bolt in the chain locker such that you can easily cut it free. If you take this precaution what exactly are you to do without a rode and without the anchor? Why bother with the precaution of ease of abandonment if you do not also carry a spare anchor and cannot cobble together a spare rode. Sorry but it makes no sense, at all, to me.

I'm with Zoidberg - coil on a plastic reel, that looks like a hose reel is a perfectly sensible way to keep a spare rode, or shore line. You can carry it round the deck, it keeps the rope neat and tidy and its easy to attach to a winch (which is how most or all of us would apply tension if we were actually kedging (who has a spare windlass). Deploying a kedge near such winch that a loose bight can be wrapped, as many times as is sensible (even for dyneema) would be easy - and most dyneem would have an out cover (to provide any grip). I have used old dyneema halyards as short rodes quite often - if you are in shallow water (slightly easier when you only draw 1m) then use of an old halyard and getting the right scope is very sensible.

Commonly Zoidberg's reel would be seen in Patagonia, or variants of - for both shore lines and deployment of a second or third anchor - call them kedges if you want. If you have an anchor deployed - it will provide elasticity or catenary - there should be no need to worry about the lack of shock absorbency of dyneema - unless you are anchoring in a 'V", or the dyneema is the primary rode - in which case rig an elastic bridle, everyone should carry a spare snubber - they do break..

We store our Fortress assembled - in the extreme - they take too long to assemble (we have not made Zoidberg's clever alteration). Our bridge deck locker easily takes a FX37 (for thin mud) and our FX16 (for sand). There are a couple of ways, well lots but they are variants of the same, to store a Fortress using commercially available brackets. One series of brackets allows the mud flaps to slot into a steel (or maybe aluminium plate) the other concept suspends the anchor from either end of its stock. Often they are simply lashed to lifeline. Location is preferentially somewhere near the stern or on the transom. We store our Fortress bit of spare chain around, its good to put round trees or rocks for shore lines - the same bit of chain 10' would be enough and will be sufficient for a Fortress, though if you use your Fortress frequently I'd carry, or use, more. We use 15m of 6mm HT chain. G70 is a good application for Fortress - buy a short length of the size down from the size you use.

Jonathan

Not entirely relevant, but images of Fortress on stern attachments.

If you want more detail send me an email address, by PM, I have better images of actual brackets.

https://www.sailmagazine.com/cruising/know-how-expanding-your-anchoring-repertoire
 
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