why dont you consider a multihull?

[Guest]

last weekend, I had a sail on a friends farrier trimaran. the wind was a bit gusty between 5 and 20 knots, and there was wind over tide chop. not ideal conditions for a lightweight 9m boat, but the performance was still electrifying. we reached a maximum of 15.2 kn with 29kn wind recorded over the deck, and almost all of the time we were travelling in the 8 to 12 knot range. perhaps more to the point, the boat was really easy to handle, tacked reliably was very close winded and handled the chop very well indeed. inside, it was well finished with comfortable accomodation for 4 people. in the marina, the amas folded up and it berthed just like a mono.

so here we have a boat which would outperform almost every mono you could think of, do it in such a way that it was a pleasure to sail and give decent cruising accomodation. yet its the only one I've seen here in the bristol channel.

now I'm a confirmed multihull sailor (catamaran in my case) and it has always puzzled me why so many sailors dont even consider one when changing boat. its not that they investigate and discard for some well though out reason, its that they just dont consider a multi usually because of some hearsay comment from somebody else who has never sailed one!

instead, the forums are full of people recommending heavy old long keel tubs even for local cruising. why are sailors so conservative?

 

[chippie]

Good Post Howard,
I ended up buying an old trimaran after sailing on some fast keelers and realising I didnt want to commit the sort of money a fast keeler requires. My 1973 Piver Stiletto has reached speeds of 16knots plus, and I find I like to be able to put a cup of coffee down and have it there when I get back to it.
The speed of multihulls can be compromised by carrying too much weight in a way that monohulls hardly notice.
I dont dispute that the long keelboats have a seakindly motion but a multihull does too without the speed limitations that all that wetted surface provides.
In coastal cruising the speed available can mean you are out of the bad weather before the long keelers are settling down to it.
I dont wish to polarise sailers of long keelers as I have happy memories of sailing on a mate's old gaff cutter (1939 vintage) including across the Hokianga bar in big seas.
Sailing boat design has moved on and I always look forward to new experiences on all sorts of vessels both power and sail.

I think the Farriers are great, unfortunately a bit prcey for me.

 

[kgi]

Unfortunately Howard old stigmas die hard, the old one about capsizing is always brought up, but thats been addressed and the modern multihull sailor is aware of it, at least if it flips over it isn't going to sink on you. (yes i know its going to stay like that). another problem is media coverage, it seems to me that when a multihull gets into trouble its headline news with pictures!!!! but for a mono, it rates a mention and thats about it! Yes we all know that the older cats don't point and had short masts so in less than fifteen knots you have to motor, but the advantages are great, shallow anchoring, down wind no rolling, in the cats with the large saloon, its truly civilised, and a galley that makes the equivalent sized mono green with envy. I have been caught in some really bad squalls in my cat and i have every faith in her ability to deal with it........keith

 

[alanporter]

Don't you have to pay double moorage for a multihull if you take up all the space between two pontoons ?

Alan Porter

 

[Guest]

No - you dont. In sailing my cat anywhere from Ipswich to Bristol and down to Spain, I have only ever paid an extra in one marina (Santander, which is cra**y anyway and should be avoided). No extras anywhere in the UK - they're often on the price list but always negotiable. But then my cat is relatively narrow beamed - if I had a boat 25ft wide, I would occupy more space and expect to pay more.

Coming back to the original question, the response so far bears out what I said - 3 multihullers who are already converted, and one person who has heard stories about mooring costs. Come on all you half boat men- lets have your views.

 

[lyc]

You pay extra at the Royal Norfolk & Suffolk at Lowestoft.

 

[Guest]

You're up early!

Never been to Lowestoft so wouldnt know. My point was that I had been to a fair number of marinas including those along the south coast and had never paid an extra. Even in Cowes.

 

[oldsaltoz]

G'day Howard,
Just a couple of notes on the comments so far.
More press attention when a cat runs into a problem. This is mostly due to the fact that despite a major event, the cat still floats, giving the press an item to photograph. When a mono flips or is holed the keel takes it to the bottom, leaving nothing to photograph, so it only rates a mention.
Also, "most" marinas work on the '3 times beam = length' when taking a booking for a cat, so a 40 foot cat with a 16 foot beam would get away with "normal charges". A 40 foot sailing cat with a beam closer to 20 feet on the other hand may have to pay more, but only if the marina does not have a single finger with boats on each side, eg, it only takes up the 40 feet in length the same as the 40 foot monohull tied up on the other side. If they only have pens then you can expect to be charged the extra as you are using enough space for two monohull craft.

Soavagoodweekend Old Salt Oz....../forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[castaway]

I looked long at Cats and Tris last year before buying my present boat. Problem was that they were all so expensive. Totally knackered HTs at 27k.. Old Iroquas at 15k plus.. and these were really not at all nice.

Only boat that looked half way nice was a 26fr Scirocco but that was 28k. Once you start looking at newer nicer cats eg HT27 they were getting up to 50k, and the choice was very limited too. Of course there was the Catilac, they were cheaper but not for me.

The higher performance jobs apart fron one offs and thing Id never heard of were equally pricey.

One of the Multi hull agencys said that I would alway get my money back due to the limited supply and large demand, hence the inflated asking prices.

Shame really because I agree that they have a great deal going for them.

I wonder how much the Farrier is, with regard to the fact that it has accom for only 4 people ( I do realise that you are paying for performance however)

Nick

 

[kgi]

Nick yes sadly you are right about multi's being pricey, a lot of the HTs are actually selling for the same money or more when they were new, and as you say the 27 is ridiculous.....the broker,....well he's trying to make a sale, so what do you expect, as for the farriers....entirely different league.....keith

 

[Guest]

you're looking at £80k or more for the Farrier, which is good value in terms of performance but not if you want accomodation. For room, you have to go to a cat, but the performance is then not as good (though better than a mono) - depending on the one you chose.

You had a good look and made your decision based on that. Fine, no argument there. What suprises me is that so many sailors dont even have a look. They just ignore - or dismissout of hand

 

[Johnjo]

Re.origional question.
Because when capsised, knocked over, they usually stay that way unlike a monohull which is normally self-righting, Mind you,Having never sailed one,
I could be talking a load of bo--ocks, Which at this time of night,I probably am anyway
mike

 

[kgi]

Mike i used to have tie down points on the under side of the bridgedeck so when you inverted you could tie your dinghy/liferaft between the hulls, but since i did some work to the bridgedeck i haven't put them back, mind you i have run her in a beam sea with 40 kts of wind when on route from ireland to La Coruna, it was bloody violent and SWMBO was sick as a pig (bless her), after that i really don't have problem with the capsize issues......keith

 

[Johnjo]

Like your sense of humour,Is that why you bought a cat?
Only joking
mike

 

[extravert]

I would love to have one of their 31 foot versions, but the reason that holds me back is the cost. I believe the F31 is about £100k new, which is a huge amount of money for what you are getting. Compare that to what you get if you go for a £100k BenJenBav, nearly 40 foot and lots of luxuary. They are no better value second hand either, because of low supply and high demand I guess.

If they cost half the amount I'm sure they would be everywhere. Maybe it's a market missed by the volume manufacturers. Perhaps all of us who would like one but think they are too expensive should enquire from Beneteau whether they make a tri, and if not, why not.

There used to be a F31 and Pwllheli which I believe was the UK demonstrator (the importer is in Cheshire), and it would scream past the rest of us keel-bound slouches and disappear over the horizon. Going to Dublin for the afternoon no doubt.

You didn't say which model you went on, not that it matters. They all look fun.

 

[Roberto]

1.If you plan to cruise a little longer than for a day and limit the size of say a trimaran to 35/40ft at most, I think the average displacement of a multihull would not like at all 2/300kg of ground tackle (I would not leave without), 3/400kg of water+fuel, + a few hundreds kg of other stuff (pram+ob, all unnecessary things one takes along while cruising). 1/1.5 tons would mean I reckon around 25/40% of a tri displacement. As an expert you would surely agree that there would be little left of the sea keeping abilities of a trimaran with such an increase in displacement.

2. With a crew of two, a monohull is much more forgiving to a sudden increase in windspeed, I mean the nasty 5kt/30kt increase in 5minutes. A multihull demands a kind of constant attention which is often not compatible with yourself and the crew you have.

3. Self steering. You should use a very complex system, linked to speed/acceleration data (to me this means a system that keeps you days in port to be repaired), no way of a windsteering (which I like), doubtful in delicate conditions even with a normal electric pilot.

I keep on liking trimarans and looking to be convinced..

 

[Boathook]

Re: why dont you consider a multihull? re reberto

re item 2 monohull is more forgiving. I own a cruising Cat and it copes very well with winds from 5 to 30 knots in seconds. She shudders and points into the wind and accelerates. A broach with a spinnaker means that you stay upright and go sideways.

With regard to load carrying it is designed to sleep 7+ and the extra weight does not seem to make much difference.
All this in a Cat under 30 foot.

 

[Roberto]

Re: why dont you consider a multihull? re reberto

Well, with all respect I would not want to be the 7th crew on your boat, or any 7th person on a 30ft cat whenever it blows a bit and waves have built a little. I am sure I would be losing a lot of fun but would be too worried to enjoy it anyway. Of course multis can be loaded, but most studies of seagoing ability in multihulls made by very expert multi lovers shows that it decreases exponentially with an increase in loading, be it crew or conveniently low placed tanks. Or that at least an increase in loading is much less worrying in a monohull.

Re. forgiveness I confess I must practice a lot more with multihulls, all I have been able to do so far in strong winds is burying the hull/floater bow and have the hell of a scare before being able to do any manoeuvering with sails.. Some expert people whose boat I was sailing kept repeating all the time: don t distract, never distract yourself. What with my average 10hour watches...

 

[Guest]

300kg anchor, 400kg water, few hundred kg of other stuff - you dont want a yacht, you want a freighter!

you're right, of course. no boat sails better when loaded down, and the higher the load is as a percentage of unladen weight, the worse the problem.

but do you really want all that junk? if so, you will pay a heavy price in sailing performance.

 

[Roberto]

Of course I do not want all that stuff, rather it persecutes me: when for some reason it becomes necessary to empty the boat, that (and much more) is what comes out of the vault, who ever put it inside??