why do (some) people hate bilge/twin keels

Don't understand the whole premise of liking or not liking a boat because it's got more than one keel. Bit like deciding whether or not you like a bloke by the colour of his hair or skin or something. There's lovely twin/bilge keelers and lets say those with a lovely personality, same as fin/single keelers and different boats have different aims/compromises. I'm not sure I'd like a boat that did everything perfectly actually - half the fun is getting the best out of boat despite her limitations.

I agree with Dylan though - if you don't explore the backwaters you're missing a beautiful world. When I started sailing on the east coast in the '70's it was one of the reasons for putting up with a decent tender dragging along behind when cruising - you could use it to get ashore in comfort and to explore the shallows.

Re: toe-in on the keels, this can be minimal or even zero as the leeway will give you some angle of attack so generating lift (and drag of course). Like everything else to do with boats it's a compromise as the toe-in and curve (which gives a bigger frontal area and a greater wetted surface) means more drag off the wind. The good thing is you can't do much about it so you can blame the designer. :):)
 
We chartered a twin keeled Hunter once and were slightly put off by its lack of bite going into wind. That was probably largely down to our lack of experience at the time, and our unfamiliarity with the self-tacking jib, but I felt that it just could not cut through choppy seas while going into wind. We later bought a long finned boat which we believed to be better suited for our cruising area in The West.

As it happens, I'm wondering about getting my bawbees together for a wee trailerable bilge or lift keeler for splodging about on the Forth in the winter. Must be Dylan's influence.
 
Sgeir said:
We chartered a twin keeled Hunter once and were slightly put off by its lack of bite going into wind. That was probably largely down to our lack of experience at the time, and our unfamiliarity with the self-tacking jib, but I felt that it just could not cut through choppy seas while going into wind. We later bought a long finned boat which we believed to be better suited for our cruising area in The West.

As it happens, I'm wondering about getting my bawbees together for a wee trailerable bilge or lift keeler for splodging about on the Forth in the winter. Must be Dylan's influence.
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Sgeir,

could well be it needed paying off a little to get the sails and more to the point the keels working as speed built up ?
 
probabaly

CAPTAIN FANTASTIC said:
It is obvious; is it not?? Perhaps the RYA should introduce the " Yachtmaster Twin Keeler" qualification; theory and practical :D:D:D:D
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probably the most evil post of the thread........



however, I have an idea

I am going to start a series of courses on shoal water sailing

several modules

1/ chart work - the use of google earth to look for places where the sea is close to the land - crinkly bit analysis - ten winter evenings - shorebased

2/how to sail a bilge keeler (don't harden everything up to breaking point and stop sailing the bloody thing on its ear) - five day course

3/the use of a pea stick echo-sounder - three days - including tip analysis, wrist action and interpreting the results

4/reversing off when you get your keels stuck - two days

5/rocking the boat to try to get it unstuck - one day (physical fitness certificate needed)

6/making tea, building sandwhiches, reading books, using the bins to look at birds, going for a walk while waiting for the tide. This will include a unit on determining the depth of the mud using the pea-stick before stepping over the side. There will also be some Zen based training to help you to enjoy watching the tide slowly creep back under your boat




the whole suite of courses will be priced at an exceptionally affordable £5,000 plus VAT

while the price might put some people off then that might be a good thing as people should know that sailing is expensive, hard to do and dangerous

You will be awarded a certificate that will qualify you to buy a **** little boat for under £1000 and start sailing.
 
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Further to Wottayottie's point.

I turned to the Kudu thread expecting to see the fascist fin keelers ripping into the bilge rats, red in tooth and claw. What a let down.

I paraphrase, One bloke said:

"I think it is a bilge keel boat"

The other bloke replied:

"Oh, I did't know that"








Twinkeelgate.
 
Sadler 290

1 tonne lead on each keel with slightly more rounded profile on the outside. Slight toe-in angle as well.

Not exactly shallow draught at 1.4m but points well and goes like a goodun.

Very stiff boat.

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dylanwinter said:
probably the most evil post of the thread........



however, I have an idea

I am going to start a series of courses on shoal water sailing

several modules

1/ chart work - the use of google earth to look for places where the sea is close to the land - crinkly bit analysis - ten winter evenings - shorebased

2/how to sail a bilge keeler (don't harden everything up to breaking point and stop sailing the bloody thing on its ear) - five day course

3/the use of a pea stick echo-sounder - three days - including tip analysis, wrist action and interpreting the results

4/reversing off when you get your keels stuck - two days

5/rocking the boat to try to get it unstuck - one day (physical fitness certificate needed)

6/making tea, building sandwhiches, reading books, using the bins to look at birds, going for a walk while waiting for the tide. This will include a unit on determining the depth of the mud using the pea-stick before stepping over the side. There will also be some Zen based training to help you to enjoy watching the tide slowly creep back under your boat




the whole suite of courses will be priced at an exceptionally affordable £5,000 plus VAT

while the price might put some people off then that might be a good thing as people should know that sailing is expensive, hard to do and dangerous

You will be awarded a certificate that will qualify you to buy a **** little boat for under £1000 and start sailing.
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Great idea - I presume it's a residential course so how many couples can you deal with?
 
dylanwinter said:
probably the most evil post of the thread........



however, I have an idea

I am going to start a series of courses on shoal water sailing

several modules

1/ chart work - the use of google earth to look for places where the sea is close to the land - crinkly bit analysis - ten winter evenings - shorebased

2/how to sail a bilge keeler (don't harden everything up to breaking point and stop sailing the bloody thing on its ear) - five day course

3/the use of a pea stick echo-sounder - three days - including tip analysis, wrist action and interpreting the results

4/reversing off when you get your keels stuck - two days

5/rocking the boat to try to get it unstuck - one day (physical fitness certificate needed)

6/making tea, building sandwhiches, reading books, using the bins to look at birds, going for a walk while waiting for the tide. This will include a unit on determining the depth of the mud using the pea-stick before stepping over the side. There will also be some Zen based training to help you to enjoy watching the tide slowly creep back under your boat




the whole suite of courses will be priced at an exceptionally affordable £5,000 plus VAT

while the price might put some people off then that might be a good thing as people should know that sailing is expensive, hard to do and dangerous

You will be awarded a certificate that will qualify you to buy a **** little boat for under £1000 and start sailing.
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You can't just leave it at that. Just like RYA Day Skippers have to do a little bit of night sailing in case the day runs out, you will need to include something like "Consideration of action when echo sounder goes off the scale". You could perhaps even set up a number to a counselling help line at £1/min.
 
i quite like the idea of buying a twin keel boat like a corribee,as long as you know what you are doing while sailing it ,i suppose you could go anywhere within reason and the added bonus of plonking her down on a bit of mud and goo without falling over.
 
I have a 35 foot Westerly OceanQuest bilge keel and agree with one of the former comments that you simply need to adjust your weight and sail set up differently. Once you´ve got the hang of that, then the rest follows.

And the definite advantage is you get to anchor places where others don´t or can´t.

My only query would be whether the general movement on a bilge-keel is different - perhaps more sensitive than the same weight in a fin keel - as I notice we tend to bob around a bit more than other similar size boats, and wonder if that´s because the weight is split in two, and perhaps may make it more "sensitive". Any thoughts on this ?

That said, once we load her up with full tanks and the rest, she tends to sit a bit quieter!
 
JustinC said:
My only query would be whether the general movement on a bilge-keel is different - perhaps more sensitive than the same weight in a fin keel - as I notice we tend to bob around a bit more than other similar size boats, and wonder if that´s because the weight is split in two, and perhaps may make it more "sensitive". Any thoughts on this ?

That said, once we load her up with full tanks and the rest, she tends to sit a bit quieter!
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My 30 foot twin keeler has a very tall mast, and with the wind howling it is always the most inclined in the marina. I've - almost - got used to that now.
 
I think often the twin / bilge keelers are older boats and many of them have totally knackered sails. With my Hurley 22 bk she sailed pretty badly with a lot of leeway when I got her but with a new main from Jeckells this season she's going like a train. Headsail to follow next season hopefully.

So it isn't just keels.
 
I would rather criticise a man's wife than his choice of boat. I have sailed a few bilge-keelers and they seem to do what it says on the tin, but not much more in the case of these old designs.

What surprises me though, is the number of owners who don't actually use them for their best feature - drying out. There are places in the Scilly Isles, Brittany and the Channel isles that are just crying out for boats taking the ground and many sailors who have bought suitable craft but don't.
 
johnalison said:
What surprises me though, is the number of owners who don't actually use them for their best feature - drying out. There are places in the Scilly Isles, Brittany and the Channel isles that are just crying out for boats taking the ground and many sailors who have bought suitable craft but don't.
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Shhh we don't want to fill our lovely secret hidaways up with yachts...
 
Tranona said:
Same reason as they (often the same people) despise AWBs. .
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I reckon you are completely wrong here. There is only one AWB maker with bilge keels and they are relatively recent. Most bilge keel owners will own MAB boats usually British made. So if anything those who dislike AWBs will like bilgies.
 
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