Lucky Duck
Well-Known Member
When we bought our first cruiser we noted the cost per sail in the log book, so the first one was the purchase price, the second half that, etc!
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Why do so few cruising sail boats have a protected helm?
- Thread starter wipe_out
- Start date
When we bought our first cruiser we noted the cost per sail in the log book, so the first one was the purchase price, the second half that, etc!
dom
Well-Known Member
Awesome idea!! Your total cost wil of course initially far exceed rise the boat's purchase price; then (assuming a punchy £200k purchase price) the cost per sail will fall to less than a penny after just twenty five sails!
"Oh don't worry darling, just popping down to the boat to spend a penny"
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doug748
Well-Known Member
Clarke and Carter have half a dozen very nice looking, dual helm, boats available starting at under 10k.
If the OP does not buy a boat soon, we might suspect he will keep his elbow on the bar forever.
If the OP does not buy a boat soon, we might suspect he will keep his elbow on the bar forever.
Saguday
Well-Known Member
Not at all. There is a huge difference between pounding upwind for hours on a boisterous rainy day warm and out of the wind behind a good sprayhood and dry underneath the shelter of a bimini compared to doing the same thing unprotected in an open cockpit. Having done both we know which we prefer. Going below just to keep warm and dry is also more likely to induce seasickness - much better to have a cockpit set up to encourage them to actually use it.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
The way my boat uses up money I think the reverse applies & the cost per sail actually goes UP not down
Sybarite
Well-Known Member
There is no right or wrong opinion here. It's all a question of personal preference.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Not one word of the following is expected to convince people who are happy with open-cockpit yachts. 
A good point in there, LK. I believe I've heard that wildlife is much less inclined to scatter when humans arrive at a site in a vehicle...
...it's only when the people emerge from behind glass, that the creatures they came to observe, flee. I expect it's true of boats too.
That includes me in the Osprey, Alahol. I've never done any such calculations, nor had I planned to start - too alarming.
The principle I'm guided by, is that I don't envy chaps whose sailing and motoring must be performed at an exposed helm. If I had a yacht with only an outside helm, I'd be disinclined to use the yacht in cold and wet weather, just as I don't use the dinghy.
Not saying those chaps are wrong, and I do believe they're happy - just saying the requirement to endure all weather, won't suit me.
And since buying and owning (berthing, maintaining, insuring, upgrading) a yacht is in most respects crazily imprudent financially, (apologies to anyone claiming to have profited or broken even) I'm daring to notice through the fog of expenses, that a boat with big windows and a heated seating area with a view, including a helm-seat, will be appealing to spend more time aboard, per year...
...in fact, it could be seen not as a rather dubious luxury, whose ownership necessitates varying degrees of weather-related discomfort, more as a cheap all-season pied-à-terre with 360° views, by the sea. The ability to go places whenever we like, is added value.
SWMBO and I do a lot of picnicking. When it's fine, we do it in style on the beach. When it's not, we stay in the car. I don't want a boat whose only dry, draught-free space is seated in a viewless cabin where one must stand in order to peer through small high windows.
Full respect to chaps who own such yachts - but what drives them (as with the desire to race) is very different from what drives me.
But, as observed above...no point, people of either preference, trying to propagate the reasoning behind their choice. C'est la vie.
A good point in there, LK. I believe I've heard that wildlife is much less inclined to scatter when humans arrive at a site in a vehicle...
...it's only when the people emerge from behind glass, that the creatures they came to observe, flee. I expect it's true of boats too.
That includes me in the Osprey, Alahol. I've never done any such calculations, nor had I planned to start - too alarming.
The principle I'm guided by, is that I don't envy chaps whose sailing and motoring must be performed at an exposed helm. If I had a yacht with only an outside helm, I'd be disinclined to use the yacht in cold and wet weather, just as I don't use the dinghy.
Not saying those chaps are wrong, and I do believe they're happy - just saying the requirement to endure all weather, won't suit me.
And since buying and owning (berthing, maintaining, insuring, upgrading) a yacht is in most respects crazily imprudent financially, (apologies to anyone claiming to have profited or broken even) I'm daring to notice through the fog of expenses, that a boat with big windows and a heated seating area with a view, including a helm-seat, will be appealing to spend more time aboard, per year...
...in fact, it could be seen not as a rather dubious luxury, whose ownership necessitates varying degrees of weather-related discomfort, more as a cheap all-season pied-à-terre with 360° views, by the sea. The ability to go places whenever we like, is added value.
SWMBO and I do a lot of picnicking. When it's fine, we do it in style on the beach. When it's not, we stay in the car. I don't want a boat whose only dry, draught-free space is seated in a viewless cabin where one must stand in order to peer through small high windows.
Full respect to chaps who own such yachts - but what drives them (as with the desire to race) is very different from what drives me.
But, as observed above...no point, people of either preference, trying to propagate the reasoning behind their choice. C'est la vie.
dom
Well-Known Member
Exactly; the current lack of wheelhouse boats is nothing more than the market efficiently reflecting current preferences. In a normal bifurcated market the old proverb applies:
Jack Sprat could eat no fat.
His wife could eat no lean.
And so between them both, you see,
They licked the platter clean.
His wife could eat no lean.
And so between them both, you see,
They licked the platter clean.
If however too few want to eat say fat, then fat pigs become bespoke products.
The same applies to boats?
stevepick
...
I have already commented on "open" sailing earlier. With my tongue firmly in cheek I just wanted to say that I never realised the weather in the UK was so bad, guessing from the probable statistical distribution of UK sailors, that many comments on the profoundly appalling weather are from south coast sailors. All I can say is that I am glad I can sail my AWB in the gulf stream warmed,sheltered, sunlight uplands of the west coast of scotland, with only the flimsiest of goretex garments to protect me from the odd shower. If I should ever decide to head south to the western approaches, I am now convinced that a protected wheel position seems highly advisable.
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Saguday
Well-Known Member
You use 'I' exclusively in your post, from which we may infer you are predominantly a solo sailor?
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Saguday
Well-Known Member
Of course! But we shouldn't let that get in the way of arguments from entrenched positions
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Dan, I think perhaps you should try this dream before you buy. I would dispute the second of your points in that most ( not all) of the dumpy pilot house boats ( in your price range) will not sail to windward ( or off wind for that matter) well in a chop so go "whenever you like" is not quite right. I have seen several couple with similar boats who have been stuck in port because their boats will not make the trip that others can do quite easily. They also suffer when the wind is in the higher ranges. Regardless of motor power. Do not take any notice of the " I went in a gale" whallas because a 4 minute 35 Kt gust is not necessarily a gale
Then there is the question of the heated area. In port that may be fine, I grant you, but you only have to look at how many motor boaters who choose to helm from outside due to the sea sickness inducing interiors. Being stuck at 30 degrees to the horizontal whilst trying to operate a tiny wheel on a flat stool can be a real pain. True seats can be angled & one can use autopilots but it all detracts from that " dream " that you have. Boat control is really horrid from a small wheel. & being unable to make instant sail adjustment spoils the experience of sailing. I am always trimming sails & adjusting things & I am sure I am not alone. It is the fun of sailing.
So take my advice & try well before you buy
thecommander
Well-Known Member
I suspect the next question will be why don't most yachts have comfortable cockpit seating.
stevepick
...
You use 'I' exclusively in your post, from which we may infer you are predominantly a solo sailor?
No, my wife has always sailed with me - loves sailing as much as I do. Plenty of other friends (of both sexes) routinely join us for weekends. As I said in my post we are lucky that where our boat is based appears to be in one of the mildest weather areas in the UK, combine this with the great sailing and anchorages around the west coast , and I just didn't realise how lucky we are.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
I thought the least rain fall was in the south of the Blackwater estuary area on the east coast.
Saguday
Well-Known Member
Yes, very dry on the East Coast and blessed with a lot of and sunshine compared to the west. However an Easterly is entirely different matter...
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Thank you Daydream, I know good advice when I read it, so I'll be realistic about cruising plans. But my same tedious points apply.
Today, bundled up, I visited the sailing club and took photos of the dinghy racers launching, keen as can be in the gusty force 4-5...
...and without even getting wet, my hands were immobilised in minutes by the cold wind, while the racers hurried out, ungloved.
I conclude that whatever it may cost in terms of a boat's looks, or sailing performance, or ability in the rough, inside steering isn't some preposterous idea I'm dallying with, which may cost me contentment in ownership; it's basic to my finding a satisfactory cruiser. And when such a boat can't be effectively sailed from inside, I'll just have to motor from inside, with a Stugeron.
If sailing requires continuous sitting outside, I might as well be aboard the Osprey, which in weather like today's, is no pleasure to me. I'm not persuaded of the point of buying a yacht which isn't usable for any more of the year than the boat I already own.
I'd still be able to steer outside when it isn't cold. So it sounds like a workable, comfortable compromise. The fact that this type of boat is also typically a bilge or triple-keeler, likewise makes it less of a thrill under sail...but in keeping with my coastal cruising plans.
But I'll try before I buy. :encouragement:
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
I have never sailed on a pilothouse boat, but I wonder whether you end up having to be fully togged up anyway, in order to nip out on deck to move a car, free a sheet, reef, etc etc.
And if on a long passage without doing much of this stuff, is a pilothouse all that much better than sticking on the self steering and settling in to keep watch at the companionway?
And if on a long passage without doing much of this stuff, is a pilothouse all that much better than sticking on the self steering and settling in to keep watch at the companionway?
RupertW
Well-Known Member
You're not going to convince him - he thinks sailing should be an indoor sport
rotrax
Well-Known Member
It is for us now-and very nice it is too!
To the poster banging on about the delights of the West coast of Scotland-been there, done that-7 degrees Celsius in mid July for Gods sake-which is one reason we have the current vessel.
It does not go to windward very well under sail, but the 110HP Turbo-Diesel Yanmar compensates very well.
Each to their own. We are travellers by water rather than purist sailors and it suits us quite nicely to be out of the elements.