Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Only from November 1st to May 1st. And in that inevitable wet week, mid-July. And I never said it should relate in any way, to sport.
Why do so few cruising sail boats have a protected helm?
- Thread starter wipe_out
- Start date
Only from November 1st to May 1st. And in that inevitable wet week, mid-July. And I never said it should relate in any way, to sport.
grumpy_o_g
Well-Known Member
Surely sailing should be whatever the person who is doing it wants it to be? I'll be damned if someone's goinig to give me a set instructions as to how I should sail (col regs and common courtesy excepted).
rotrax
Well-Known Member
Good Post-have what you want and enjoy it.
In a bar on Alderney a callow yoof was telling me that I was missing out on a great buzz sailing a sporty yacht with a big rig to windward.
I asked him how he thought the buzz would compare to taking Bray Hill in the IOM flat out on a quick bit of kit.
He had no idea-the concept was outside his experience.
I firmly believe the basic premise is one of youth v maturity in many-but obviously not all- cases.
Our first yacht was a share of a lively 27 footer with a big rig. The boom was so low to the coachroof no chance of a sprayhood.
After a couple of years and a fair bit of sailing it became obvious that a more user friendly cruiser was required. First Mate came up with the criteria that a cruising yacht for us MUST have adequate headroom in the Gally and Heads, and that weather protection would also be nice.
Since then we have progressed upwards through two aft cockpit yachts to the current Motor Sailer.
Although some might say progressed downwards..................................
In a bar on Alderney a callow yoof was telling me that I was missing out on a great buzz sailing a sporty yacht with a big rig to windward.
I asked him how he thought the buzz would compare to taking Bray Hill in the IOM flat out on a quick bit of kit.
He had no idea-the concept was outside his experience.
I firmly believe the basic premise is one of youth v maturity in many-but obviously not all- cases.
Our first yacht was a share of a lively 27 footer with a big rig. The boom was so low to the coachroof no chance of a sprayhood.
After a couple of years and a fair bit of sailing it became obvious that a more user friendly cruiser was required. First Mate came up with the criteria that a cruising yacht for us MUST have adequate headroom in the Gally and Heads, and that weather protection would also be nice.
Since then we have progressed upwards through two aft cockpit yachts to the current Motor Sailer.
Although some might say progressed downwards..................................
jac
Well-Known Member
I think there we have the difference.
It's a continuum from the Timothy Spall type, travelling in a comfortable old barge with no interest in sailing but enjoy being float and exploring the coast, through the comfortable old tubs with knackered, poorly trimmed sails but all the home comforts to fast cruisers and then ultimately the out and out no compromise, bare hull speed machines driven by Ben Ainslie.
Where you sit on that continuum drives your attitude to the type of boat you want. My dilemma for the next boat is that sometimes I want to be Timothy Spall. Sometimes I want to Ben Ainslie.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
You have it there, my friend. The lengthy but ultimately doomed pursuit by this forum, of one boat to do everything, causes owners always to say they're content with their compromise...
...but the best way (for me) is NOT to compromise...
...so a reasonably speedy, fairly demanding dinghy for summer, and a safe comfortable old tub for all other weather, is a great cheap solution for me...
...assuming I can find the tub.
prv
Well-Known Member
I've come to the same conclusion, although since we already have the compromise boat and it's not a bad one, I'm unlikely to be putting the idea into action any time soon.
(Also, I can't afford it
)In my case the ends of the scale are in slightly different places.
My Ben Ainslie place has a healthy dose of Charles Stock in it - as well as a reasonably nippy boat, I want a simple one that can be paddled up a creek for the night, and light and handy enough that close-quarter manoeuvres under sail is the norm, like a dinghy, rather than a party trick. The boat would be ready and waiting for spontaneous evening sails, but would probably not venture beyond Chichester to Studland except on its trailer. This boat is all about getting back to the basics of sailing.
My Timothy Spall boat, on the other hand, wants to be rather faster and a damn sight more seaworthy than his barge. If I decide I want to visit Sark this weekend, I ought to be able to do so in comfort and with little regard to weather forecasts. I want to pop over to Herm and dry out on the beach there too. And I want to be able to anchor in out-of-the-way places and be self-sufficient there for a while, and tie up in interesting harbours without worrying about nasty rough quaysides spoiling my delicate topsides. This boat is a practical platform for getting places by water, it's about the destinations rather than the journey.
Pete
BrianH
Well-Known Member
It doesn't have to be a tub, and all the tub-like wallowing and inability to sail efficiently to windward that implies.You have it there, my friend. The lengthy but ultimately doomed pursuit by this forum, of one boat to do everything, causes owners always to say they're content with their compromise...
...but the best way (for me) is NOT to compromise...
...so a reasonably speedy, fairly demanding dinghy for summer, and a safe comfortable old tub for all other weather, is a great cheap solution for me...
...assuming I can find the tub.
Most years I cruise in company with two other old-fart, singlehanded friends (in the marina we are referred to as the three musketeers). Both their sailing boats have a better performace than my HR94 motor-sailor; one has a S&S Deb 33, the other a Comar Comet 910.
We make only enough distance on each leg to sleep at anchor or moored, that means no more than 50nm a day. True that I am usually the last boat to arrive (but not always), but never too late for my friends to evening socialise on my more comfortable and spacious boat ... or perhaps because I am the only one with a working fridge and cold beer.
Here we all are going to windward and, of course, I am trailing the fleet:
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
A rare sighting of another Deb! Is the owner called Brian, by any chance...?
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Windward? point up a bit then !!!!:ambivalence:
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
That's very nicely put, Pete. If you work out exactly which boats these are, order a brace of each, I'd like just the same. :encouragement:
Barnacle, that's a great pic to illustrate just about the best possible cruising under sail, I reckon.
Soloing one's own boat, but in company; no hurry and no reason to endure discomfort. Why isn't there a smiley for envy?
BrianH
Well-Known Member
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
No, an Italian called Amedeo. She's now for sale, by the way. Here he is:
Ah now I remember why I bought her... one day I will get her looking that smart, my own is a bit of a fixer upper.
Edit: have you got a link to the advert?
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Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Very pretty. It shows Mr Rogers should have given the Co32 an extra 12 inches.
prv
Well-Known Member
For the first, I like what I've read about the Kite. I still have a soft spot for gaff rig, and this one is made of carbon fibre and reckoned to give pretty good performance while retaining many of the benefits like short manageable spars, ability to scandalise the main for extra control when manoeuvring, hoist and drop without going head to wind, etc. Large enough to camp in for a night or two, light enough to manhandle, could probably be rowed or sculled quite well for short movements if sailing really wasn't an option, or can lower an outboard from its well when there's further to travel after the wind drops. Admittedly she's not the absolute prettiest little gaffer out there, but she'll do. A lot of the available photos are of an all-white one which I think doesn't do her any favours compared to a bolder colour and a bit of contrast.
For the second boat, the image in my head is of a Nelson (they've been made by various builders over the years, the current main one is Seaward). That said, I have heard that they might not fully live up to the hype in some areas, so if I were in the position of being able to buy and then fuel a 36 - 45 foot semi-displacement mobo, I'd have to do a bit more research into that world. Somewhere to put a decent dinghy (preferably a small RIB) would be very desirable, and I don't really like the "strap it on edge across the transom like a giant nappy" solution often employed.
Pete
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Sybarite
Well-Known Member
I like going places and then pottering.
Consequently the sailing pleasure might come from the dinghy such as a Foxer or a Nestaway 9'/
http://foxerdinghy.com/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24iZMyzyn_4&list=PLCF0DEF79A139F76B&index=1
https://nestawayboats.com/shop/nestaway-9ft-clinker-stem-dinghy/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEZVpquMDkQ
Eg Sailing to the Glénan islands, mooring for a couple of days pottering around with the dinghy to visit some beaches for picnics and swims - fantastic.
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Greenheart
Well-Known Member
BrianH
Well-Known Member
Nearly missed that edit. Yes, it is here. Click on the awful photo to link to a better series, including internal ones. As you may be able to see, she is immaculate below. The only negatives in my eyes are a teak deck, which is in very good condition, and a retrofit, behind-the-mast, mainsail furling - although it works well and has never given any problem.
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that. Those pictures will give me something to aspire to.
And to get back on topic... how could anyone put a wheelhouse on a boat as pretty as that
And to get back on topic... how could anyone put a wheelhouse on a boat as pretty as that
BrianH
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that. Those pictures will give me something to aspire to.
And to get back on topic... how could anyone put a wheelhouse on a boat as pretty as that
If you mean the Deb 33, no one does. But what they do is what Amedeo has done, a substantial, effective sprayhood and a permanent bimini - perhaps the best of all worlds. In fact, in the northern Adriatic, that configuration is very common.
Because we get some very cold and stormy weather in early summer I appreciate being able to totally enclose my cockpit on moorings with professionally-made panels with soft windows that can be rolled up when the sun comes out.
Despite my penchant for a "protected helm" position even in the Mediterranean, what seems completely unsuitable to me is the Fisher range with their limited cockpit. One jogged past me at sea on a reciprocal course last summer, a rare, red-duster visitor, where the skipper is perched up on the pushpit and madame is soaking up her melanoma dosage on deck by the mainmast. It was a hot, sunny day with a light SE wind, temperature well over 30°C, and the deckhouse must have been emulating a tropical greenhouse.
.
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rogerthebodger
Well-Known Member
I think with proper design you cam have both a open type cockpit and a sheltered inside wheel house that allow open air sailing with the comforts of a closed in steering station.
This is my current boat. the cockpit is quite high and I can see over to the bow when standing at my outside wheel. My wheel house floor is about a meter below the cockpit level with big laminated windows that allow for a good view in all directions and view of sails from inside.
I have a fixed bimini to mainly to protect from the sun and a sprayhood that can be and is lowered most of the time.
There are sides and back that can be erected when in dock if the weather is very bad or when I leave the boat.
Wheel house or not depends on what kind of sailing you do and where you are located. Its like cars I have an open sports car to fun on nice summer days and a 4x4 for towing and off road use. different tools for different jobs.
This is my current boat. the cockpit is quite high and I can see over to the bow when standing at my outside wheel. My wheel house floor is about a meter below the cockpit level with big laminated windows that allow for a good view in all directions and view of sails from inside.
I have a fixed bimini to mainly to protect from the sun and a sprayhood that can be and is lowered most of the time.
There are sides and back that can be erected when in dock if the weather is very bad or when I leave the boat.
Wheel house or not depends on what kind of sailing you do and where you are located. Its like cars I have an open sports car to fun on nice summer days and a 4x4 for towing and off road use. different tools for different jobs.