Who plans to buy a boat at the Boatshow

[Sailfree]

I bought in 2009 LBS , my experiences is all the promises go down the drain once the cheque clears , 12 months of problems after problems each time having to fights to get work done , I had to E mail the MD in France at one point to get the work done on warranty the commission itself took one day that after it stood in there dealer yard for 3 months with the odd hour work done on it now and then and only when I lost my rag that they got on and did the work , it wasn’t never taken on a sea trail , none of the instrument where ever calibrated , I ended up paying to get work done myself as it got embarrassing , still to this very day there problems that should had been sorted out at the commission stage .
12 months warranty on a new yacht is worth nothing considering in that 12 month you may only use it the most 2 months in all i.e. weeks ends and summer hols . .
Would I buy again new NO..................
The yacht itself is a great yacht ,sails well , and very happy with it , shame the backup service from both the dealer and the manufacture was cxxp .

I bought new in 1998, 2001 & 2005 All had problems but in reality most of the first boats problems were put right by the agent but it was the pass the buck to Volvo attitude that left me Perplexed. (for a number of very serious faults). On third purchase I bought Yanmar and kept money back until all faults rectified but faulty bow thruster tube fitting (leaking) was not rectified for 2 yrs and i don't think the failure of the bowthruster at 5 yrs was unconnected.

I now would have serious reservations about ever buying a new boat again - at least from the UK marine industry where aftersales service is very necessary and often missing. Best to consider that the UK industry as a cottage industry on very small profit margins selling dreams not reality.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Just to show the obverse of the coin, I bought new. The boat certainly had a snagging list (all minor problems - sticking locker doors, that sort of thing) but the agent resolved everything within a short while. The most persistent problem was a domestic water pump which would kick into life unbidden and continue running until a tap was used. After a fruitless attempt to resolve it, it was replaced with a different unit and has been trouble free since.

So, it is possible to buy new and not grind your teeth to dust.

 

[Sailfree]

Just to show the obverse of the coin, I bought new. The boat certainly had a snagging list (all minor problems - sticking locker doors, that sort of thing) but the agent resolved everything within a short while. The most persistent problem was a domestic water pump which would kick into life unbidden and continue running until a tap was used. After a fruitless attempt to resolve it, it was replaced with a different unit and has been trouble free since.

So, it is possible to buy new and not grind your teeth to dust.

Ken you were lucky as if you bought from the agent I think there is a case of another boat some 15 months previously that nearly sunk on one occassion had to be withdrawn from the charter market due to its numerous faults, had a survey listing some IIRC £60,000 worth of defects and the buyers were trying to refuse to accept the boat and get their money back. Resolving all the defects was your worse nightmare and completely killed any pleasure this couple had in buying their dream.

While I directly benefited as many of the charters were transferred to my boat I felt terrible as I originally asked the charter company to look at this particular boat as I was seriously considering it and they suggested this boat to the unfortunate purchasers when I decided to stick with my current boat.

I have been careful with my words as I don't want to cause any problem for YBW but am aware of a lot of the probs and inspected the particular boat myself. For completeness I would add that the current charter fleet has 2 boats identical to yours and find them superb.

I think it unacceptible that items costing up to £500,000 can be so variable in quality and the final fitting out done in UK yards with no QA and definately to the lowest price by agents/dealers that are under severe financial pressure as evidenced by the number that go bust. There must be a better way.

After I bought my last Jeanneau I spoke with another very experienced Jeanneau 45 owner who informed me that after previous experiences they only bought their new 45 as a factory supplied bare boat. Refused the first one due to what they considered a slightly misshappen hull. Accepted the 2nd but commissioned all the fitting out work themselves and project managed the progress and quality.

If I bought new again I think I would go this way unless the UK marine industry get some QA/QC let alone security of deposits. There are quality marine firms out there but often rarely employed by the dealers/agents as they are rarely the lowest initial price.

Unfortunately from talking to many new owners good experiences like yours are too few.

 

[jh001ace]

I bought new in 2008, just put a deposit on a Hanse 445 sudject to price and test sail, will be selling our Dufour 425GL - fully loaded. If the deal stacks up and test sail goes well I will proceed subject to selling our current boat, if necessary I will wait to SIB.

 

[Koeketiene]

I bought new in 2008, just put a deposit on a Hanse 445 sudject to price and test sail, will be selling our Dufour 425GL - fully loaded. If the deal stacks up and test sail goes well I will proceed subject to selling our current boat, if necessary I will wait to SIB.

Did you just get a bonus?

 

[Resolution]

Under the Sale of Goods Act, you can claim for up to six years for 'latent' defects - i.e., those which were present when you bought the boat, but not obvious or visible.

It,s been some years since I looked at the Act closely, but IIRC the Act places emphasis on the customer identifying defects as quickly as reasonably possible. For most likely defects in a typical modern yacht we are talking weeks, not years. The six years is the absolute long stop date.

 

[Resolution]

Best to consider that the UK industry as a cottage industry on very small profit margins selling dreams not reality.

Once again, Sailfree has made a good point. His type of yacht is made in a modern factory with pretty good quality control. But when it comes to commisioning and the fitting of extras in this country the opposite is often true. Until the buying public are ready to discriminate and pay for quality engineering services, we will continue to have problems.

 

[Angele]

I'm in the same position as Twister Ken.

Bought new in 2005 - a French boat. A relatively basic spec from the manufacturer and a relatively long list of dealer supplied extras (including all the electronics). Yes, there were a few snags - gas alarm not working, live and neutral reversed on the shorepower circuit and a slow leak from the freshwater system (cracked transom showerhead), plus the odd locker catching. All quickly resolved by the dealer and nothing has come to light since that could be blamed on either manufacturer or dealer.

On reflection, I was taking a bit credit risk on the UK agent, having paid so much up front with little to show for it. But, it all worked out fine.

I would be more careful when parting with cash a second time around, given some of the horror stories I have heard.

 

[andymcp]

Back to the original question - who plans to buy a boat at the show? - I have no idea who would. There were precious few deals on the go at the show that I wouldn't expect to be able to negotiate with a dealer anyway. And your ability to have a proper poke round is so limited. The boat isn't rigged up, you can't test sail it, on many of them you can't even walk further forward than the cockpit, there are too many people around to be able to start climbing all over lockers (one Jeanneau staff member told us not to look in the cockpit floor locker on their 45DS since it blocked peoples access off and on.....), its even worse trying to explore locker space below with so many people tramping round the boat.

On the plus side, the boat show is the ideal place to find out how your potential purchase will look with your entire extended family on board during a summer trip through a canal sans mast....

Oh, and to whoever had obviously been caught short and decided to use the loo in the Bav 40......really, could you not have hung on a wee bit longer?

 

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDoo]

If you are worried about the great unwashed public ruining your viewing then some exhibiters will, with a bit of advanced warning, gladly shoo them away for you at an appointed time. (actually it is not such a bad idea)

Think I'll steer clear of that Bav 40 though....

 

[Arcarius]

Not all new boats make a loss !

I put a £1000.00 down on a new Southerly 32 at LBS when they first came onto the market at £111K this was 2-3 yrs ago I changed my mind they returned my deposit and i purchase a 5 yr old 110 but I notice the Southerly 32 is now over £170K I could of made a killing on the new boat even with the £30k worth of extras you always seem to need!

 

[haydude]

First of all I do not know why I should pay money to go to a market place to buy. Under this principle I avoid UK boat shows.

Given that new boats are poor value for money, no, I will not buy new.

They are poor value because:

- new AWBs now all have plastic (laminate) interiors with little or no wood
- their loss of value within the first 2-4 years is enormous.
- brokers and manufacturers now tend to save on rigging spars and deck hardware, fitting under spec equipment, like for example smaller blocks, smaller winches and smaller clutches (typical are Spinlock XAS clutches, recommended for up to 10m boats, fitted on up to 14m boats).

Older (5-8 years) boats are better value because:

- They have better quality interiors, rigging, spars and deck hardware
- It is likely that they will resell for the money paid (unless trashed!).

Moreover, on a used boat one can have a survey and decide to buy or negotiate the price based on any defect. On a new boat one assumes that she is perfect and under warranty, which is NEVER the case and from the experience of several buyers, once the cheque cleared it is hard to have any job done under warranty!!!

Surveys do even detect structural defects. If one buys new, how is he going to know that the boats' hull wasn't layed across a weekend and with time moist entering the fibers will prime the layers rejoined on Monday apart? Which is something a surveyor could detect from a boat that has been in the water for a year only through a simple moisture reading. And once that happens or is detected years later, where does that leave the buyer with an expired warranty?

Unless one can follow the whole building and fitting process which can happen only with lottery or train robbery money, AWBs are better purchased second hand.

 

[haydude]

I put a £1000.00 down on a new Southerly 32 at LBS when they first came onto the market at £111K this was 2-3 yrs ago I changed my mind they returned my deposit and i purchase a 5 yr old 110 but I notice the Southerly 32 is now over £170K I could of made a killing on the new boat even with the £30k worth of extras you always seem to need!

£170 asking or sold for? There is a huge difference between the asking price and what a buyer is prepared to pay for.

 

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDoo]

£170 asking or sold for? There is a huge difference between the asking price and what a buyer is prepared to pay for.

I'd be surprised if Southerly were heavily discounting thier boats but it is possible I suppose. FWIW while increasing list prices should help residual values I don't think they will generally lead to nearly new boats being sold for significantly more than thier invoiced price.

 

[haydude]

I bought new in 2008, just put a deposit on a Hanse 445 sudject to price and test sail, will be selling our Dufour 425GL - fully loaded. If the deal stacks up and test sail goes well I will proceed subject to selling our current boat, if necessary I will wait to SIB.

You are mad swapping a Dufour for an Hanse!