Who pays, locked in berth ?

[Oceanracing]

Briefly ,wintered in the Caley canal fully intending to leave at the end of the month for my summer mooring. Scottish canals have locked down the canals so that no one can proceed to sea at the end of their winter mooring contract. Email arrives this morning saying i will be charged on monthly basis for the mooring . Any legal eagles or others who have been in such a situation can advise please.

John

You should be paying for the mooring that the boat is in. The marina you were due to arrive at should defer the cost until you arrive. You have no double charges then and the marina/morring looking after the boat is being rightfully paid.

 

[Oceanracing]

Could you get someone from the local marine trade to move it out the mooring for you?

You can get a skipper to remove it but yes they can charge you for looking after it.

 

[Rappey]

Portsmouth harbour seems locked down now.
My friend is a mooring operator and went out to check on boats, mod police came over to him and ordered him to return to where he came from.

 

[Stemar]

While I've no sympathy for a leisure sailor who gets sent home with a flea in his ear, I'd have thought a mooring operator doing his rounds to check on boats should be considered normal working. Maybe not essential, but certainly good practice and, officious Plods apart, minimal infection risk to others.

 

[Seven Spades]

Exceeding their authority without a doubt. You are allowed to work. You must work from home unless you are unable to do so. It is quite clear that what he was doing is allowed. tell him to print off a copy of the law and go back out there armed with it.

 

[dom]

Portsmouth harbour seems locked down now.
My friend is a mooring operator and went out to check on boats, mod police came over to him and ordered him to return to where he came from.

Overzealous and unlawful if there's no other angle here. A letter to the appropriate authority should see this approach overturned.

Sad to say it, but this crisis increasingly seems to be characterised by the capricious and unlawful actions of over-zealous police officers. Offset to be fair by the reckless and thoughtless behaviour of many citizens.

Not good

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Overzealous and unlawful if there's no other angle here. A letter to the appropriate authority should see this approach overturned.

Sad to say it, but this crisis increasingly seems to be characterised by the capricious and unlawful actions of over-zealous police officers. Offset to be fair by the reckless and thoughtless behaviour of many citizens.

Not good

I'm not arguing the rights and wrongs here, but isn't it the case that the QHM is the law in Portsmouth Harbour, and if he or she says no small boat movements, then that's it, regardless of national constraints?

 

[Rappey]

Portsmouth is a military port and qhm has quite extensive powers stretching from cowes to Hayling island. Under the dockyard ports regulation act it seems what they say goes.

 

[Seven Spades]

I believe that they would have to issue a Local Notice to mariners which they have not.

 

[Rappey]

I believe that they would have to issue a Local Notice to mariners which they have not

I'm not so sure as some vessel movements are not advertised, ie a nuclear submarine entering port. That leads to a harbour mouth closure which is only mentioned over vhf as it happens.
It's not easy to argue with a large police launch with machine guns !

 

[Seven Spades]

Portsmouth is a military port and qhm has quite extensive powers stretching from cowes to Hayling island. Under the dockyard ports regulation act it seems what they say goes.

Not under the 1865 act, their powers under that act are very restricted.

 

[dom]

I'm not arguing the rights and wrongs here, but isn't it the case that the QHM is the law in Portsmouth Harbour, and if he or she says no small boat movements, then that's it, regardless of national constraints?

To an extent. QHM's primary responsibility is to support the Navy's national defence interests and it has limited powers to discharge these duties. This of course includes the safety of navigation within a designated area in and around Portsmouth Harbour. Which in turn overlaps with Portsmouth Council, ABP Southampton, and of course the local police services, and the national court system. No way would QHM for example investigate a murder in the harbour, or indeed most other matters of civil law like this.

And in this case, if a boat slipped its moorings and was damaged QHM could certainly face a civil claim from an aggrieved insurer.

That said, everyone is winging it a bit now as the announced rules are so ambiguous. I for example can designate key workers in my firm and when we asked for guidance on this, all we received was a template of the internal file note we should write! Not saying that anybody is at fault here as events are moving so fast.

 

[Rappey]

Not under the 1865 act, their powers under that act are very restricted.

"Quite extensive powers" is a direct quote from gov. Uk Web site.
They have the power to board, search, move vessels etc. Seems quite the opposite to what you claim.
Just browsed through the 1865 act. I'm non the wiser and certainly not worth arguing over ?

 

[Seven Spades]

Port regulations to be made by Orders in Council.
In relation to any dockyard port it shall be lawful for Her Majesty in Council, from time to time, by Order in Council, to make regulations for all or any of the following purposes; namely,

• To prohibit the mooring or anchoring of vessels so as to obstruct navigation into, in, or out of the port:
• To appropriate any space as a mooring place or anchoring ground for the exclusive use of Her Majesty’s vessels, but not so as to authorize any user of such space in such manner as to obstruct navigation into, in, or out of the port:
• To prohibit or restrict the having of gunpowder, and the having or discharging of shotted or loaded guns, on board any vessel in any specified part of the port, and to regulate the loading and unloading of gunpowder in the port:
• To restrict the use of fire and light, and the having of tar, oil, or other combustible substances, on board any vessel in any specified part of the port:
• To prohibit the navigating of steam vessels at a greater than a specified speed in any specified part of the port:
• To require the presence of at least one person at all hours of the day and night on board every vessel above a specified size moored, anchored, or placed in any specified part of the port:
• To prohibit or regulate the breaming of vessels in any specified part of the port:

And for such other purposes as from time to time seem necessary with a view to the proper protection of Her Majesty’s vessels, dockyards, or property, or to the requirements of Her Majesty’s naval service.

 

[Seven Spades]

"Quite extensive powers" is a direct quote from gov. Uk Web site.
They have the power to board, search, move vessels etc. Seems quite the opposite to what you claim.
Just browsed through the 1865 act. I'm non the wiser and certainly not worth arguing over ?

Power to search, &c.
The Queen’s harbour master, or any person having authority in writing from [F1the Secretary of State] in this behalf, may, with proper assistants, enter into any vessel in a dockyard port, and there search for gunpowder, shotted or loaded guns, fire, or light, or combustible substances had or suspected to be had on board in contravention of any Order in Council under this Act, and may extinguish any such fire or light; and if any person wilfully obstructs the Queen’s harbour master or other person in the execution of the authority conferred by this section, he shall for each offence be liable to a penalty not exceeding [F2level 1 on the standard scale].

Power for Queen’s harbour master to unmoor vessels, &c.
If the master of any vessel within a dockyard port does not moor, anchor, place, unmoor, or remove the same according to directions given by the Queen’s harbour master in conformity with any Order in Council under this Act, or if there is no person on board of any such vessel to attend to such directions, the Queen’s harbour master may cause the vessel to be moored, anchored, placed, unmoored, or removed in conformity with the Order in Council, and for that purpose may cast off, loose, or unshackle, and (if need be) sever any chain or rope of the vessel, first putting on board a sufficient number of persons for the protection of the vessel in case there is not a sufficient number of persons on board to protect the same; and all expenses attending the exercise of the powers of the present section shall be paid by the master of the vessel.

The powers in this act are quite specific and apply to specific circumstances. They do not for example have a general right to search, they can only search for specific items, in this case items deemed to b a threat to the Navy. I cannot see anything in this act (there may be another act that does) that give them the power to prevent the dockmaster attending his moorings.

 

[Humblebee]

Lots to consider here and I suggest we keep this thread going so we can share experiences and information.
For my part, I usually keep my boat at Oban Marina for the winter 6 months then move to a mooring at Arisaig for the summer. The lockdown came into force before I could leave the marina so it remains there, for the foreseeable future.
Anyway, Oban Marina have just sent me an invoice for one month's stay, presumably to cover the month of April, at a rate equivalent to one month of my usual 6 month winter fee.
I'm really not sure if this is a fair deal or not. One the one hand it does represent a discount on their usual summer charges, but also they have big savings by not running their usual ferry between the island and the mainland, little or no use of their toilet and laundry facilities etc. And I haven't had the haul out, wash down and relaunch that is part of the winter 6 month package.
So I'm undecided what to do for now. I get on well with the owners and staff, no wish to make things difficult for anyone, might just wait a while and see what others do.
Any other thoughts or experiences to share?

 

[chriss999]

For information, my circumstances are similar to the OP.
My boat is on the hard at Exeter quay, and my winter contract ends at the end of this month. I can’t vacate to move to my down-river mooring because of movement restrictions- including craning and convoy which have been cancelled. Exeter River & Canal have decided not to charge winter members for storage etc for periods when we are forced to stay beyond our contract end.
A good decision. They have decided not to profit from the extra time we are forced to stay because of the virus.
But no discount on winter storage for the lock-down period when I can’t visit the boat or work on it & I’m not arguing about this.