Who has gone into the broads with their mast up?

[steve yates]

Looking for ideas if I find myself in the alde, at southwold, lowestoft or great yarmouth.
Where did you get to with your mast still up anyone who took a sailing boat in from the sea?
Am I right in thinking I can get as far as Beccles from lowestoft?
thanks.

 

[Leighb]

We explored the Southern rivers, Waveney and Yare in our Halmatic 30 a few years ago.
Yes, via Lowestoft you can get up to Beccles as far as the road bridge and it is a pleasant walk into the town. Downstream you can get to St Olaves.
To visit the Yare you have to come out again from Lowestoft and re-enter at Great Yarmouth. That needs a bit of planning to get the bridge lift booked and the tides right. I am not sure if the bridge is working again though? It has been out of action, if so you can forget the Yare.

If it is possible then you can backtrack the Waveney as far as St Olaves, again!, and/or visit Burgh Castle, the remains of the Roman Fort are pretty spectacular. Into the Yare you can get as far as Postwick Bridge before Norwich, there is a good, if pricy, restaurant the Waters Edge at Bramerton a mile or so before the bridge. It has good moorings in front and bankside moorings a little further away.
If you have any specific questions please pm me.
The Broads Authority website is a very good source of information, for "charts" the Heron Maps The Broads is first class.

 

[LittleSister]

I took a boat mast-up into the Broads a few years ago. In via Great Yarmouth, and went up the River Yare to Trowse/Whitlingham, just outside Norwich city centre.

From Great Yarmouth up the Yare there are 2 bridges at Great Yarmouth (Haven Bridge and Breydon Bridge) that lift in tandem but have to be booked in advance, and then you've got plenty of water depth and air draught until you get to Postwick Bridge on the outskirts of Norwich. At Reedham (sort of half way) there's a rail bridge that swings on demand (though occasionally out of action for repairs) at Reedham, and a small chain ferry a little beyond to watch out for and give way to. On the outskirts of Norwich is Postwick Bridge (fixed, but quite high) if you can go under that you can easily continue to Whitlingham (a country park not far from the city centre.)

I don't know if it's still the case, but you used to be able, with advance planning (and payment?), in theory continue the last mile or so, through several opening bridges (including footbridges) right into Norwich city centre, next to the Cathedral etc. with the mast up. (I have a vague recollection of hearing a while ago that one of the necessary bridges was jammed shut.)

When visiting the Broads, watch out for hire boats doing stupid things, and when mooring watch out for overhanging trees! A temporary licence (££s) is required.

On my first trip to the Broads I hadn't appreciated until I arrived from the sea at Great Yarmouth that you had to book in advance (at least previous working day, office hours only) the bridges to get beyond Great Yarmouth - Haven Bridge (in middle of GY) and Breydon Bridge (just beyond it, leading to Breydon Water, and hence the Yare towards Norwich and the Waveney towards Beccles). As it was a bank holiday weekend, I assumed there would be a bridge lift booked at some point.

Tied up at the Town Quay (just before Haven Bridge, right next to the town centre) - tricky if you don't have fender boards -quay wall has projecting timbers better suited to ships, current is strong and there's a goodly rise/fall of tide. No facilities, but note there are toilets in the Town Hall across the road office hours. I believe there is theoretically a charge for mooring here, but I doubt it is ever collected.

I loathed Great Yarmouth at the time, but have come to have something of a soft spot for it. (Don't miss a brilliant guided tour bye volunteers round the Lydia Eva (the last steam drifter), also tied up on Town Quay - free, but you will certainly want to make a donation after a tour. A couple of museums across the road, and another couple within a few hundred yards. The town is rather down-at-the-heel, but there are some very nice buildings and a good range of facilities within a few hundred yards of the Town Quay.

I couldn't get Great Yarmouth harbourmaster to answer either VHF or phone. I had thought the Broads Authority had a Yacht Station in GY, but couldn't find it (turns out it's a couple of hundred yards up the Bure, easy walking, but the Bure blocked to boats with masts up by a very low bridge). Somehow I found the number for Broads Control (sort of like harbourmaster for within the Broads), who were very helpful and told me there was a bridge lift booked for a certain time the next morning (the two bridges Haven and Breydon, being so close to one another, are normally lifted in tandem).

Once through those bridges we had a lovely time lazily wafting up the Yare over a couple of days, stopping at some of the numerous free for 24 hours moorings provided by the Broads Authority (there are also others provided commercially or in association with a pub). The procedure to call Reedham rail bridge to swing (or is it lift?) was simple.

The Postwick Bridge is very high, and our small boat (23ft) was able to get under it.

It was an enjoyable trip, I'm definitely glad we did it.

 

[Leighb]

Re Postwick Bridge. It is certainly quite high and a small yacht would have no trouble, however our air draft on the Halmatic 30 was about 40' and Postwick is 35' with maybe a couple more at LWS, but not enough for us.
Re the Trowse "swing" bridge I believe it has not worked for some years.
The info above re Gt Yarmouth emphasises the need for planning ahead to make the arrangements for a trouble free transit of Gt Yarmouth. The Office is not manned at weekends, but a bridge lift can be arranged but you must call them during the week. As I already said, not sure if it is working anyway?
We were told it is best not to stop there as the locals did not like yachts, but that was in Lowestoft where perhaps they had a biased opinion.
Having booked ahead we found everything went very smoothly both coming and going.

 

[Rafiki]

About three years ago we took our Westerly Corsair ( 36feet 1.5m draft) in via Great Yarmouth. We overnighted at Lowestoft and then went up to Great Yarmouth having booked a bridge lift to go in. I cant remember the names of the places but the first night we went left as far as you can go before coming upon a fixed bridge and stayed there for the night. An OK pub provided a meal and toilet facilities. Then we retraced our steps and headed up towards Norwich but stopped at a pub just where there is a small car ferry/floating bridge. Nice Pub with showers . Then on as far as you can get towards Norwich - basically the fixed bridge at the ring road. There are a lot of moorings there near a very good pub, again I recall that there may have been showers. Then basically retraced our steps and stopped at another mooring where there is an old windmill. A few points: Once you have paid your entry fee there are no further mooring charges. Buying provisions is very difficult, there are virtually no shops. Tides make a difference, some places we couldn't stay with our draft at low water. Birdlife is fantastic.

 

[LittleSister]

We were told it is best not to stop there as the locals did not like yachts, but that was in Lowestoft where perhaps they had a biased opinion.

Having later worked in Great Yarmouth, I never heard any suggestion of dislike of yachts moored at Town Quay, in fact the contrary. It is, however, right in the centre of town, and adjacent to and below a wide pedestrian area next to a busy main road. On our stay (bank holiday Saturday night) we could have done without boy racers revving their engines at the traffic lights close by, but had no trouble. I would be unsurprised if occasionally a passing yob chucked a burger wrapper down onto a moored boat, but I very much doubt there's ever be any serious trouble,

It is true that the harbourmaster and his crew are very much focused on commercial shipping, and have no interest in encouraging visiting/passing yachts (nor in bothering to go into town to collect yacht mooring fees, as far as I can tell), but I don't think they are obstructive.

During the summer there are often yachts moored up there, some from Netherlands and Germany. Almost all would be on their way in or out of the Broads, though it may also be a useful launching/arrival point for a North Sea crossing, or up/down the East Coast. The Town Quay is a good distance up the river from the harbour mouth, but very sheltered from waves and swell.

Buying provisions is very difficult, there are virtually no shops.

Generally true, but in order to help anyone going up the Yare here are some potential sources of provisions -
Great Yarmouth - lots of shops and supermarkets (+ restaurants, etc.) within walking short distance of Town Quay
Reedham - Small shop (post office?) on river frontage (Broads Authority Yacht Station) -geared towards ice cream and postcards, and a long time since I've been, but I think they have basic provisions.
Loddon (up narrow, shallow River Chet leading left off Yare just upstream of Reedham) - big village/small town with good range of shops, incl. small supermarket, pubs, restaurants etc.
Rockland (up small shallow cut on left halfway-ish between Reedham and Postwick) - Pub opposite moorings at head of cut, turn right up road and walk c1km to general store/post office.
Brundall - various shops, supermarket, hardware, pharmacy - walk away from river and turn left when you/ get to the main street. Also chandlery and numerous marine trades around the riverside area.

 

[The Q]

Trowse bridge will open, but it needs a weeks notice.. Network Rail are trying to get permission to weld it shut. But that like all opening bridges are there because of a requirement of law for when the road or rail bridge was built.

Bridge heights and openings

Note, the railway bridges have a tendency to jam shut in very hot weather. ( or rather Network rail won't open them in case they stay jammed open.)
Also note Network Rail have finally budgeted to replace the control mechanisms on their bridges, so some time soon, the bridges will be closed for some time while they replace the 120+ year old electrics and hydraulics. (Some time soon, as in not likely this year)

 

[Slowboat35]

Rather disgracefully the GY Haven bridge is still inop - after a year. There is no prospect of it being fixed in the forseeable future. As with the Trowse bridge there is a legally enshrined Right of Navigation and if the operators fail to observe this requirement thay are in breach of the law. Sadly that doesn't seem to deter them. I don't believe Trowse bridge has opened in ten years or more.
Further there are 'third crossings' being built at both GY and Lowestoft, the GY one will be a twin-leaf bascule bridge with an air draft of only 7m as far as I can determine, and the Lowestoft bridge is a single-span with an air draft of 12m - even that will be a major pain for the numerous vessels with higher masts located in the marinas upstream. Lowestoft will open in accordance with the existing bascule bridge schedule but I have no info on GY.
The potential problem that both these bridges will create is when traffic requires passage in both directions simultaneously - they cannot keep a bridge open waiting for a vessel to approach from the other and so will be faced with the prospect of double-openings a few minutes apart on one or other which will be unattractive for both the bridge operator and the motor traffic that gets held up twice as badly as before...
There will be waiting pontoons at Lowestoft, at GY I have found no info.
My experience with both (existing) systems is that when working they work well and booking is a simple and cheerful exercise. They do expect you to minimise bridge up-time (and I mean minimise) to the extent that you're expected to be motoring towards a closed bridge 100m away with that last bloody pedestrinan who's hopped the barrier just blithely strolling across. It can be a bit nerve-wracking at times. At GY with the tide running under the bridge I stay well away until it moves...
The 'waiting pontoon' at Lowestoft (in the Old Fish Dock) is a joke, there's barely 2m of water at the inshore end at low tide and well under a metre on the Eastern end and it's approach. It is also a major source of top-quality guano with which it is thickly encrusted. Utterly revolting.
Mooring in GY is as said above most definitely a fender-board operation to what at low tide is a high wall and subject to a swirling 4Kt current. Doable. I confess to preferring to raft up alongside Lydia Eva short-term and slipping a tenner under the wheel-house door before I go. I like GY, loys of interesting architecture, some good museums, interesting eateries. Never found any hostility there though the centre has a reputation at night.
Provisioniing - Beccles has excellent supermarkets minutes walk from the moorings.
Pubs - Reedham Ferry. I don't much care to rubbish a business but the food there at present is beyond abysmal. Nice place for a drink, but beware the solids, and the staff attitude if (when) you're not satisfied. I'm told the pub next to the bridge is v good even if the town quay can be crowded in summer.
You'll gather that encouraging boaty visitors is not on the agenda of any of the 'authorities' in the area.
Rockland and Loddon, both attractive as described but the Chet is a long dike that can be made 2 boats' widths wide if required and trees may interefere with masts, they certainly will to Loddon.

However as the Yare is effectively inaccessible from the sea much of that is academic, and the swingeing fees demanded by the Broads Authority make the relatively small length of the Waveney look a bit pricey.

 

[Greg2]

We have boated on the Broads for years and there isn’t much I can add save to say that the swing bridges at Reedham (on the Yare) and Somerleyton (on the Waveney) both regularly break down and are inoperative for hours, sometimes days and occasionally weeks. This has been going on for years and money is finally going to be spent on refurbishment starting in September this year.

Gt Yarmouth is currently a no-go as a way in for yachts as the Haven bridge had been inoperative for some considerable time and work to repair it delayed. Last I heard it was due to start this month but there may have been another delay. Breydon bridge has also had problems and I think is also currently out of action.

Lowestoft is possible but be aware that the rail swing bridge at Oulton Broad also has problems and hasn’t been able to swing or has required a gang of men to do it in recent years. Not sure what the current situation is but the guys at Oulton Broad Yacht Station can advise (they operate Mutford Lock and will take your booking). Also worth noting that the road bridge at Mutford lock broke down just before the Bank Holiday weekend, no doubt scuppering some planned trips.

In short, if you have anything other than a low air draught bridges are a major concern and I would leave it this year and consider next year when hopefully some improvements will have been made.

All of this contributed to our decision to move south and having taken the boat back for winter lift out closer to home as we had a lot of work to do, failure of Somerleyton bridge for weeks on end left us genuinely worried that we wouldn’t be able to get back out to sea! As it was they fixed it and we heaved a sigh of relief as we passed through - next day it had broken down again leaving a cruise in company returning to Brundall from Woodbridge stranded.
.

 

[LittleSister]

There will be waiting pontoons at Lowestoft, at GY I have found no info.

The proposed Great Yarmouth 'Third River Crossing' bridge over the Yare did have waiting pontoons (not connected to the shore, sadly) shown either side of the bridge on the plans a while back. I haven't seen the latest iteration of the plans.

 

[seivadnehpets]

Not quite "going in", but I'm planning Ludham to Norwich, and return in a hired sailboat later this year. We can lower, but I intend to request a lift every time, and will record the responses!

 

[The Q]

The Historic Fleet from Womack?

Trowse Bridge did open 13th March 2020, much pre arranged / delayed and arranged again. It was to remove an old floating restaurant. Norwich’s famous floating restaurant has left the city

The latest problems for the haven bridge GY was it failed health and safety inspections, seemingly 50+ year old electrics with exposed wiring, contactors etc isn't allowed anymore..

 

[Habebty]

Trowse Swing Bridge, as mentioned previously, will open by arrangement outside of rail traffic periods. Finding a slot to swing the bridge without disrupting the timetable during the day must be pretty difficult. Regarding the "legal right of navigation", I am not convinced it still exists (at Trowse), as Norwich City Council - who are the port authority, consider the port as defunct except for leisure use and may no longer be a registered port. In a professional capacity, I was not able to conclusively prove this though.

Not me, but a bit of info below in this FOI request -

140806 L Reply to Mr Bradley FOI 0011603 of 4 Aug.pdf (whatdotheyknow.com)

 

[seivadnehpets]

The Historic Fleet from Womack?

Yes, we take Brown Bess, 20' half decker with balance lug. Touch and go if we will make it to Norwich, but we will be 3 to take turns on oars when required, and taking turns on the helm, we should be able to sail and oar all the long hours of daylight.
My plan is to sleep on board underway, and take exercise at night when others sleep.

 

[The Q]

Trowse Swing Bridge, as mentioned previously, will open by arrangement outside of rail traffic periods. Finding a slot to swing the bridge without disrupting the timetable during the day must be pretty difficult. Regarding the "legal right of navigation", I am not convinced it still exists (at Trowse), as Norwich City Council - who are the port authority, consider the port as defunct except for leisure use and may no longer be a registered port. In a professional capacity, I was not able to conclusively prove this though.

Not me, but a bit of info below in this FOI request -

140806 L Reply to Mr Bradley FOI 0011603 of 4 Aug.pdf (whatdotheyknow.com)

Google on my computer want to translate that FOI from Welsh

 

[LONG_KEELER]

I think it's nice to go places in your own ship but sometimes you just have to admit defeat. The time before last I went by ferry with the car to Holland and rented a Baveria from Naarden for 2 weeks. No stress at all. Particularly with regard to weather windows for crossing the North Sea. It was fun too trying different yachts. We plan to do the same on the Broads. Even Charles Stock of Shoal Waters fame used to trail his boat to The Broads sometimes.

Just tell the kids that they will get an inheritance but we get first dibs.

 

[johnalison]

I think it's nice to go places in your own ship but sometimes you just have to admit defeat. The time before last I went by ferry with the car to Holland and rented a Baveria from Naarden for 2 weeks. No stress at all. Particularly with regard to weather windows for crossing the North Sea. It was fun too trying different yachts. We plan to do the same on the Broads. Even Charles Stock of Shoal Waters fame used to trail his boat to The Broads sometimes.

Just tell the kids that they will get an inheritance but we get first dibs.

There is a lot to be said for that approach. In addition, sea-going boats aren't always best suited to sailing on the Broads. I haven't hired (the brochures never said 'chartered') a boat there for forty years but my memory is of boats that carried a massive weather helm but would turn in their own length. I don't think that even my smallest boat, which was a Cirrus 22' would have been handy enough to enjoy fully, and didn't even have stowage for a quant pole.

 

[The Q]

Most sea going boats have too deep a keel for sailing on the broads, ok the river Yare to Norwich is somewhat deeper, but the northern broads deeper than 4ft and you could be in trouble.
The hydrographic survey is here by the way.
Water depths and navigation notes

Yes broads boats are set up for weather helm , when you are tacking a 40ft boat up a 50ft wide river you need all help you can get.

Quant poles, are quite often tied vertically to a side stay, plenty of room there..

There are several boat yards on the broads with sailing boats for hire.
Martham boats,
The hunters boat yard,
Oliver's boats,
Eastwood Whelpton.

 

[steve yates]

I would visit in a bradwell 18, 8m airdraft , lifting keel with 1.5m fully down and 40cm retracted. Though by the sounds of the bridges I’ll be exploring the suffolk rivers or sandwich and rye when Iget to take her out. Hopefully later nextweek if no probs with wifes health.

 

[johnalison]

Most sea going boats have too deep a keel for sailing on the broads, ok the river Yare to Norwich is somewhat deeper, but the northern broads deeper than 4ft and you could be in trouble.
The hydrographic survey is here by the way.
Water depths and navigation notes

Yes broads boats are set up for weather helm , when you are tacking a 40ft boat up a 50ft wide river you need all help you can get.

Quant poles, are quite often tied vertically to a side stay, plenty of room there..

There are several boat yards on the broads with sailing boats for hire.
Martham boats,
The hunters boat yard,
Oliver's boats,
Eastwood Whelpton.

The biggest one I hired was one of the Lady class from Herbert Woods and I’m fairly sure it was 36ft, plus bowsprit. As it had four berths I borrowed a nephew to make up the numbers and we had a great time. Our usual week included Wroxham, the Ant as far as Barton Broad, and up to Horsey Mere, engineless, of course. Our second finest achievement was tacking up Meadow Dyke; the first being finding a mop to replace the one that we lost on the second day.