Who can make me a sprayhood by copying the old one?

[vyv_cox]

"Basic"
"A mid quality"
and a "top quality"

They said it depends on what quality material and build I wanted! There was something like £400 difference between the basic quality and the top quality version. Can it be that there would be a £400 difference in material costs alone? their quote has me very confused. Appears they don't hide the saying from customers "you pays your money and gets your choice" Also they offer a discount for anyone who collects and self installs!!

I paid an extra £75 to have my stack-pack sewn with the top grade UV-resistant thread, which I believe is PTFE. Not only is the thread very expensive, it is also difficult to use, so lengthens the time taken for the job, and for all I know has to be done a different way.

I have had two hoods, one with a cockpit tent, and a winter cover, all scrapped because they had shrunk so much that they no longer fitted. The third hood is almost at the same stage now. Fortunately I have the patterns for the first hood and winter cover, which I can take to a good sailmaker to have a new one made. I have done this once and also lent the pattern to the owner of another boat for him to do the same.

 

[Hydrozoan]

… I have had two hoods, one with a cockpit tent, and a winter cover, all scrapped because they had shrunk so much that they no longer fitted. The third hood is almost at the same stage now. Fortunately I have the patterns for the first hood and winter cover, which I can take to a good sailmaker to have a new one made. I have done this once and also lent the pattern to the owner of another boat for him to do the same.

Our hood is conventional, attached by a mixture of tracks forward, zipped pockets over two hinged arches, two press studs per side (the tightest part of the fit), and adjustable straps to the rear sides. It is neither baggy nor shrunken, and the straps seem to me to take up a lot of potential stretch or shrink. It is ca. 12 years old, the maker no longer exists, and every winter my home-local (river-based) canvas man says it will do another year with a few repairs.

When I asked him a year or so ago if he would make a copy, he was reluctant because the boat is far away. I have wondered about asking again, suggesting that we could fit it and mark the final positions of the press studs and accept some risk of a less than ideal fit - mainly because I would like to put the business his way if I could.

May I infer from your post, Vyv, that you have found having a hood made to an original or a pattern is fine, and that your shrinkage problems did not arise from that practice?

 

[pvb]

I've found stretching to be the problem in the past, rather than shrinkage. In 19 years of owning my Hallberg-Rassy 352, I bought 2 new sprayhoods. Both were supplied by Hallberg-Rassy, who use their original cover maker Rössy Kappel to supply replacements. On both occasions, the old sprayhood had stretched and become a bit saggy. Because Rössy were working to the original patterns, both replacement sprayhoods were a perfect, taut fit. They say they use Sunbrella Plus fabric.

 

[Hydrozoan]

I've found stretching to be the problem in the past, rather than shrinkage. In 19 years of owning my Hallberg-Rassy 352, I bought 2 new sprayhoods. Both were supplied by Hallberg-Rassy, who use their original cover maker Rössy Kappel to supply replacements. On both occasions, the old sprayhood had stretched and become a bit saggy. Because Rössy were working to the original patterns, both replacement sprayhoods were a perfect, taut fit. They say they use Sunbrella Plus fabric.

Thanks. Yes, I can see that working to original patterns would in principle overcome any shrinkage or stretching issues, and indeed I presumed that a company like HR would offer standard replacements. I was rather expecting that copying an existing (and nicely but not overly taut) hood would not be materially more difficult or risky than making anew from a pattern, but there are times when I'm not getting that impression.

 

[jaybee63]

The reason the old hood most times does not work as a pattern is that what was originall 2 dimensional flat canvas and window material becomes 3 dimensional. As such when the panels are unpicked they can not be laid out completely flat as they need to be to genarate an accurate pattern.
Anyone who has tried will be aware of what I'm describing. It's why Sprayhood Windows become cleaner within a few months, they take on a 3D shape.

John
www.tecsew.com

 

[Hydrozoan]

The reason the old hood most times does not work as a pattern is that what was originall 2 dimensional flat canvas and window material becomes 3 dimensional. As such when the panels are unpicked they can not be laid out completely flat as they need to be to genarate an accurate pattern.
Anyone who has tried will be aware of what I'm describing. It's why Sprayhood Windows become cleaner within a few months, they take on a 3D shape.

John
www.tecsew.com

Thanks, John. I can understand the principle of what you're saying - and I'm sure Mrs H would tell you that understanding of textiles is not my strongest suit (so to speak)!

 

[wully1]

Fair winds is a proven and popular design of boat so there. Should be some sailmakers who have a patern for her? For last Boatie I got a Solent based sailmaker to knock one up from stock and it was just fine.
Owen Sails have a big back log of cover work as they will not make covers without visiting the boat to make a pattern as the winter weather has been more breezy than usual so even If you forked out for a top quality job it would be a while before you got it...
How about getting a ' home-er' from a local, semi retired sailmaker? PM on TOP for details..

 

[jaybee63]

If it was me, I'd look around local marinas and take note of his work consistently looked good. I'd then look for some older examples of their work and see how well they have stood up, maybe ask the owner how old the work is and how much work it's needed over the years.
You can also research various cover makers sites in case they have a standard pattern, but that would only work if the frames and fittings are the same.
You should be able to search certain sites for your boat model.

 

[duncan99210]

Having made quite a few canvas projects, including a set of chaps for the dinghy, SWMBO and I are not complete novices in the field. However, we both walked away from making a new sprayhood, as the task was simply too complex for us to be happy undertaking. Instead we went to Sioux Sails in Nidri for the thing. Watching the process of making the sprayhood was illuminating to us: the making of the pattern was a the crucial part and the one where we got to sort out just how we wanted the new hood to work. By having the top bar come a bit further back into the cockpit, it "joined up" the shade from the bimini but obscured the view: lifting the second bar somewhat restored the forward view but now through the hood rather than the rather unsatisfactory tiptoes view over the top of it. And so on and so forth. Two visits later with the part finished hood to confirm fit and adjust and a final visit to fit the lift the dot fixings and that was the job done.
In discussion, sprayhood are the biggest job they do in terms of labour. Much more labour intensive than anything to do with sails. There's the best part of a weeks worth of work in the hood by the time you've taken pattern making, machining and fitting into account. The price we paid was split almost 50/50 between labour and parts, although I suspect that material prices in Greece may be higher than in UK but I'd think labour costs may be lower. Anyhow, not cheap but we're delighted with the hood, which replaced a 14 year old one that had shrunk considerably: the guy from Sioux Sails did initially ask why we didn't just have the seams redone, but once he'd seen it, he understood why we were after a new one.

 

[vyv_cox]

May I infer from your post, Vyv, that you have found having a hood made to an original or a pattern is fine, and that your shrinkage problems did not arise from that practice?

My first hood and cockpit tent were made in Holland and were still perfectly OK several years later. I suspect it is moving the boat into the Mediterranean that has led to the shrinkage. We made our cockpit cover in about 1996 and it lasted well until about two years ago when it split trying to get it to reach the various fastenings. Can't blame it for splitting after all that time but it had shrunk noticeably once it was being used in sunshine. My current hood has only been used in Greece and is well under five years old, barely reaches any of the fastenings. I put the lift-the-dot fittings in the hood, so I know they were initially correct. The hood was a very good fit, from my pattern, when first fitted. The worst fittings now come up around 2 inches short.

 

[Davy_S]

I thought that the Vega club had someone who made dodgers and spray hoods, if I remember right she was called Diane, I bought dodgers from her years ago. not checked the Vega site but may be worth a look, in fact not seen Steve Birch on here for a long time.

 

[Hydrozoan]

My first hood and cockpit tent were made in Holland and were still perfectly OK several years later. I suspect it is moving the boat into the Mediterranean that has led to the shrinkage. We made our cockpit cover in about 1996 and it lasted well until about two years ago when it split trying to get it to reach the various fastenings. Can't blame it for splitting after all that time but it had shrunk noticeably once it was being used in sunshine. My current hood has only been used in Greece and is well under five years old, barely reaches any of the fastenings. I put the lift-the-dot fittings in the hood, so I know they were initially correct. The hood was a very good fit, from my pattern, when first fitted. The worst fittings now come up around 2 inches short.

Thanks, Vyv - I had wondered if your Mediterranean sun had been a major factor and it's clearly not been such an issue for ours. Taking into account the difficulties described above of making from an existing hood rather than a pattern, we'll go for a maker near the boat - a pity in a way as our 'home' canvas man has done a very good job in keeping it going so well, but it seems to make best sense. Thanks again - and to the OP and contributors for an interesting thread.

 

[Tranona]

You have, alas, completely missed the point of my post, which was not in any respect a criticism of the prices charged for sprayhoods.

Where a business has year-round work completely relevant. A business which has to rely on custom which comes in over a limited period is always going to have to charge more than one which has year-round business. That's why sailmakers often offer big discounts in the autumn, why hotels offer deals during school term times and why firework displays cost less the further you get from November 5th.

Many marine businesses are restricted in this way, and so the have to charge more than businesses which have a more even spread of business round the year. That doesn't make them bad, or incompetent, or dishonest; it simply explains why marine stuff often costs more than the non-marine equivalent.

There used to be an interesting parallel with car manufacture. In the days when 40% of UK cars were sold in early August, UK manufacturers used to have to stockpile months' worth of production to meet that demand whereas larger international manufacturers could simply swap their production lines from LHD to RHD for a few weeks. British manufacturers had higher costs and crippled cashflow as a result, which is why they lobbied to change the registration system.

No, I did not miss the point. I understand perfectly what you are saying. However, no business has an exact even flow of work and all will if necessary use incentives to attract business when they have an excess of resource available - or increase prices when there is excess demand.

What I object to is the idea that non marine suppliers are intrinsically cheaper than marine - particularly in a trade like canvas work. Businesses set their basic prices, particularly labour rates, based on long term costs and at a level that will earn a profit. So, back to the basics, one supplier can only be cheaper if he has lower material costs (such as using lower quality), prepared to achieve a lower labour hour rate or use less hours.

You can see that working in all the explanations here for variability in prices - from going to a lorry covering place and asking them to stick up a bit of material that looks like the original to have a top of the range custom designed and fitted new hood. The example given of the firm that offers 3 levels of quality is a good example. Their prices vary between £1000 to £1400 for the same boat, illustrating how much difference there is between the two ends of the spectrum.

For similar quality, doubt there is very much difference among suppliers, even non marine, but suspect that the latter are more likely to take on a basic make to match job and therefore appear "cheaper".

There is nothing wrong in people seeking out cheaper sources, but they just need to bear in mind the potential downfalls. Nobody makes a fortune out of canvas work for boats (or any kind of canvas work where the skills are not in short supply and the barriers to entry low), and nobody is being ripped off, just because it is "marine".