Whither the whole yacht market

dunedin said:
Have you seen a recent HR? Coincidentally there was a new model HR 50 in the marina hoist when I passed - couldn’t see the interior, which I am sure was lovely.
But it had a nice keel with a deep bulb keeping the weight low, twin rudders, retractable bow thrusters at bow and stern, wide but not too extreme stern, bowsprit for asymmetric etc. Didn’t look a 20 year old design.
Also had fixed roof over front of cockpit to provide secure dry space on watch.
Don’t think it had carbon spars, but that is an option I believe.
Suspect not AWB price though.
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You literally just described a 20 year old AWB. In 20 years they’ll widen that stern further!
And yes, been on many.
 
Tranona said:
What you term "state of the art" may just be fashion
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That’s the point though, it’s not. Dunedin shows this nicely talking about a wide stern but not “too extreme”. Their current wide stern was fashion 20 years ago in AWBs (and considered weird and extreme at the time) and he’s saying extreme presumably referring to the current AWBs. I agree they are conservative, but as I said they do eventually adopt all of the “fashions” down the line.
I do wonder whether people who bought an HR 20 years ago and explained everything wrong with AWB design like wide sterns and twin rudders/wheels dislike the current HRs or if they too eventually realised AWBs had it right.
 
Tranona said:
The only thing I disagree on is that £20k goes nowhere on a refit these days, although a well maintained 10 year old boat should not need anything serious.
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Hmm, don't quite agree with that. At the 10 yr point the first owner has had the benefit of warranties and all new equipment. However, by then the sails will be worn out, the electronics out of date, the pumps due for replacement and the heads needing new pipes. Gas pipes and regulators, the list goes on. You could end up with a real basket case that really does need £20k plus spending even on the basics. Might be better to go older if there is a sign of regular maintenance being carried out, not just a quick service of the engine. Hopefully by then, the second set of sails will have been added and far better quality than the cheap manufacturers supplied.

The lack of new 32ft yachts being purchased, the Brexit trap door meaning buying an EU yacht just got really expensive has meant second hand prices have gone up. We have watched the prices of a Moody 31 go from mid £30k to low £20k and back up again over the last 10 - 15 years. We aren't selling because the costs and lack of availability of berths.

Royal Clarence Marina now fully booked for the winter unless you have sub 32ft or so and only a couple of them. Suspect the other nearby Solent marinas the same.
 
I think he meant need as in necessary. At 10 years sails won’t be knackered so unless racing they’ll probably last many more years. In my experience buying boats yachties can’t see electronics aging, other than my boat I don’t think I’ve ever seen electronics upgraded!
I guess it depends how good you want the boat to be after refit.
 
Humblebee said:
I agree with Concerto, a seaworthy hull, engine and propeller count for more than the latest fashions or production methods for the interior.
There is also an environmentally perspective. On other threads we have seen the problems old, disused boats can cause. Hulls are nigh indestructible, well maintained will last decades, restoring an interior is perhaps within our own abilities. Restoring old boats is better for the environment!
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Indeed, maintaining and refurbishing older boats is a wholly commendable business. Not only do you keep a boat out of landfill, you avoid the production of a new one; and we know building boats is a massively environmentally expensive business.

You also help to keep local businesses and skills alive, not to mention your own hand skills and a growing, personal investment in the craft. Into the bargain we, in the UK, can get a type and size of boat that can't really be bought nowadays. Something that was designed for Northern waters and in many important respects will out perform anything available new.

It is possible to buy, keep and upgrade an old boat cheaply, it is also possible to spend and inordinate amount of money on it, there's your choice. Very few people can afford to buy a new, marina based boat.............and it is just as well.

.
 
benjenbav said:
Seemed a bit sweary. Doubt I will look for more of their content.
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It was a bit, but I thought it was quite funny in parts.

Mind you, I suspect none of those guys are in a position to buy a new Halberg Rassy, so I dare say HR don’t care what they think.
 
I've read through the thread, and the point seems to have moved from what you can buy now v what is secondhand, to awb v hb

I was looking for a larger boat, already have 2 houses and didn't want to sell one to fund a newer boat, I bought a 2003 oceanis 411, for around 65k, new sails, rigging, sound survey

Spent 5k on new thru hulls, new bimini and cockpit enclosure and new upholstery

Looks and feels like a new boat, but I can sit back with an older boat a newer one couldn't compete with apart from maybe a wider aft section and full width owners cabin

I can't see the reason for paying the new prices when there is still a huge potential market for good quality used boats apart from rental and charter.

I may change my mind next upgrade, but that won't be for a while now.
 
ColleyV8 said:
I've read through the thread, and the point seems to have moved from what you can buy now v what is secondhand, to awb v hb

I was looking for a larger boat, already have 2 houses and didn't want to sell one to fund a newer boat, I bought a 2003 oceanis 411, for around 65k, new sails, rigging, sound survey

Spent 5k on new thru hulls, new bimini and cockpit enclosure and new upholstery

Looks and feels like a new boat, but I can sit back with an older boat a newer one couldn't compete with apart from maybe a wider aft section and full width owners cabin

I can't see the reason for paying the new prices when there is still a huge potential market for good quality used boats apart from rental and charter.

I may change my mind next upgrade, but that won't be for a while now.
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Wow , that’s a great boat at a stonking price. When did you transact?
If you’re done and dusted for £70k I’m very jealous.
 
Concerto said:
You are talking about 40ft yachts, but at the show I chatted to many people who cannot afford a new 30ft yacht which costs about £200,000 in full trim. Their only option is to buy secondhand. Over the past decade virtually no boats of this size have been produced, this will have a long term effect on the market. Many marinas and harbours are suffering a shortage of berths for larger yachts, yet there are vacancies for smaller yachts. Having been onboard for most of the show on the 40 year old Westerly Konsort, which is only 29ft, and the number of visitors who commented on the build quality and seaworthy interior. Many also commented they disliked how stark and open the interiors are, let alone how much they bounced in the choppy waters. These modern boats sit on the water like a cork, not sit in the water like the Konsort. This particular Konsort had crossed the Atlantic in the ARC, but I very much doubt anyone would use the Oceanis 30.1 to do the same voyage.

Some people have said I was mad to spend so much money on renovating my 1980 Westerly Fulmar, I would never get it back. 10 years ago I considered buying a new 32ft yacht and I was looking at £180,000. Instead I bought a 33 year old boat and it has now cost me about £52,000 with no labour. It has been worth it to me as some of the balance was invested in a flat for my daughter at university that I received a fair rent and made a nice profit when I sold it. Most of this has paid for the renovation. Someone asked me what I though a new Fulmar would cost new today. Being a mainly hand built boat with lots of teak onboard, probably about a quarter of a million upward in full trim with VAT. The GT325 costs £235,00 plus VAT and is slightly larger. I have been told there is a new Contessa 32 currently in build. I hate to think what that will cost the owner when he could have bought an older one and spent £60,000 to £80,000 getting it renovated. When you compare the Fulmar with the Contessa, you can see how small she is in these photos taken last week in Ocean Village.

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Talking with an owner of a town house in Ocean Village that has a berth included with the house. It is only a 10m berth, so 32ft or under only. There is very little to choose from in that size even on the secondhand market due to the continually increasing length of the majority of new boats going back several decades.
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Hey Nice company there. Chalk and cheese. There is no denying the Contessa is a little confined down below. Interestingly and forgive me for pointing out, the Contessa has twin tanks fitted which can have its benifits!!!. Now ive looked again the rig on your Fulmar is massive in comparison to the Contessa. Very interesting that.

Steveeasy
 
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It may come as no surprise my boat choices are driven by two factors mainly. Cost and aesthetics. fickle I am. When I bought my first boat many years ago, well 10 years ago. I looked at a few and recall the broker at Deacons saying dont look at the Twister, it offered nothing inside> He was right, well sort of but it was a pretty boat and I eventually had two and they always made me smile when I turned up at the yard.

After a few years one boat turned my head when I was out on Lake Solent. It mattered not how it was inside. Wet, if that is the price one has to pay for looks then so be it. whilst I cant comment on its sailing ability yet having only been out a dozen times and most of that was in heavy weather. You can sail it hard, Having had a big rig I actually wanted one that was proportional to the boat and its weight.

One tenth the price of a similar new 32 ft boat. I think there is every chance there is room for refit expenditure and still end up with something that will appreciate in value. whether a new boat will achieve something similar time will tell.

Steveeasy
IMG_1149.JPGIMG_1149.JPG
 
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steveeasy said:
It may come as no surprise my boat choices are driven by two factors mainly. Cost and aesthetics. fickle I am. When I bought my first boat many years ago, well 10 years ago. I looked at a few and recall the broker at Deacons saying dont look at the Twister, it offered nothing inside> He was right, well sort of but it was a pretty boat and I eventually had two and they always made me smile when I turned up at the yard.

After a few years one boat turned my head when I was out on Lake Solent. It mattered not how it was inside. Wet, if that is the price one has to pay for looks then so be it. whilst I cant comment on its sailing ability yet having only been out a dozen times and most of that was in heavy weather. You can sail it hard, Having had a big rig I actually wanted one that was proportional to the boat and its weight.

One tenth the price of a similar new 32 ft boat. I think there is every chance there is room for refit expenditure and still end up with something that will appreciate in value. whether a new boat will achieve something similar time will tell.

Steveeasy
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She looks in very good condition and feel sure your grin will go from ear to ear whenever you look or sail her.
 
Concerto said:
She looks in very good condition and feel sure your grin will go from ear to ear whenever you look or sail her.
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I do try not to scare too many people with my rather annoying smile. that said you dont see too many up around the rugged rocks. Heres one in moderation for you.
SteveeasyNBQQ4096 (1).JPG :)


Not so much later, the solar panel sitting on the coachroof was lost at sea whilst heading out of Oban. followed by my new cap from Crinan Boatyard £12, This lead to a complete meltdown of my sense of humour.
 
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Yup, started looking for a boat in 2019. Pandemic hit. Decided to charter for a few years, and mouth hit the floor at the boat show this year...
 
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