White Diesel Paradox

[CapPugwash]

White doesn't cause diesel bug, crap design of yacht tanks and allowing water to collect in the tank causes diesel bug.
It happened just as much with red.

Water is generally a problem on boats.

But it isn't the colour I was referring to, but the addition of Biodiesel aka FAME. I understood that there is more of this in white diesel then red. I was sure that biodiesel had been known to cause diesel bug but I haven't any references to back that up. Someone must have told me that somewhere along the line.

However, as westhinder said above in post #11 "All of the yachts on the continent have been using white diesel for years now. If it were that bad, we would have seen a vast increase in diesel bug cases, quod non. This is a non-issue, I think. " which is a good point.

 

[Rappey]

There are claims bio diesel is quite aggressive on certain metallic parts and seals on older engines whereas new ones are built with this in mind, ie nitrile seals rather than rubber.
It is more hydroscopic and supposed shelf life of only 6 months.
Proper marine diesel has to be fame free, but soon up to 10% fame could be sold as marine diesel as this e10 stuff becomes available.
As west hinder has said though , we are not seeing masses of fuel problems.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

The diesel bug has nothing (or very little) to do whether the diesel is white or red, it is more to do with the design of the tank, storing conditions and age of the diesel. Cleaning, filtering, polishing the fuel and tank and finding ways to reduce condensation will drastically reduce bug contamination.

 

[Achosenman]

FWIW, some good information here. Click here

 

[Sandy]

Water is generally a problem on boats.

But it isn't the colour I was referring to, but the addition of Biodiesel aka FAME. I understood that there is more of this in white diesel then red. I was sure that biodiesel had been known to cause diesel bug but I haven't any references to back that up. Someone must have told me that somewhere along the line.

However, as westhinder said above in post #11 "All of the yachts on the continent have been using white diesel for years now. If it were that bad, we would have seen a vast increase in diesel bug cases, quod non. This is a non-issue, I think. " which is a good point.

Quietly scratching my head here. Do you think that the refineries do anything different to red diesel apart from adding a dye?

 

[Achosenman]

Quietly scratching my head here. Do you think that the refineries do anything different to red diesel apart from adding a dye?

FWIW

In January 2011 the EU Fuel Quality Directive was implemented in the UK which introduced changes to the composition of Gas Oil. Fuels intended for use in non-road mobile machinery (NRMM e.g. tractors) were required to have a sulphur content of 10ppm, and were known as ULSGO or Ultra Low Sulphur Gas Oil. Compliance was largely achieved through the “downgrading” of White (Road) Diesel and so the Gas Oil supplied did not need to contain FAME.

But now

Changes to the Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation (RTFO) now mean that tougher new biofuel targets have come into force (effective 15th April 2018) which will compel all suppliers of fuel into the UK market to contain at least 12.4% biofuel by 2032. The scheme achieves this in stages, 7.25 % now, and 9.75 % from the 1st January 2019. With the new RTFO changes, none of our suppliers cannot now guarantee that their SFGO will be FAME free, so we must all take steps to minimise the disruption that the addition of FAME may cause.

 

[Sandy]

FWIW

Thanks, do you have original sources and any evidence that refineries are tweaking red or just adding dye?

 

[Achosenman]

Thanks, do you have original sources and any evidence that refineries are tweaking red or just adding dye?

At this stage just the info from the link I posted in #24.

In a previous career, we were very strict concerning the quality of fuels and not all fuel was equal.

 

[Sandy]

At this stage just the info from the link I posted in #24.

In a previous career, we were very strict concerning the quality of fuels and not all fuel was equal.

Cheers, I'll take a look.

In a previous career I investigated when things go very, very wrong, It is amazing what you find in the real world.

 

[Graham376]

I've been using white for 15 years, in common with hundreds of thousands of EU boaters. Rarely hear of a bug problem in local boats.

 

[Achosenman]

I've been using white for 15 years, in common with hundreds of thousands of EU boaters. Rarely hear of a bug problem in local boats.

The bug never usually becomes a problem until it is stirred up in the tanks. Rough weather engine failure is usually the first symptom people experience.
Some manufacturers recommend tank cleaning every 5 years. When I had my tank cut open and cleaned after 15 years, (the boat was new to me) it had a layer of gunk up to the feed pipe. I never had any symptoms, and the boat had spent its entire life in the Med up to this point.

 

[TernVI]

Fuel bug in cars is very rare.
Fuel bug has been an issue with yachts long before bio, or before anyone much used white diesel in the UK.
25 years ago people were having the same problems.

But I think things have changed.
I suspect there are more additives in red diesel these days, to meet emissions rules.
Fuel makers do not advocate storing fuel for long periods.

The average yachtsman would do well to forget the snake oil additives, check there is no water in the bottom of the tank and avoid storing too much fuel for longer than necessary.

Also avoid having lots of copper pipe or brass fittings in the system.

 

[Dan Tribe]

I would be interested to hear any comments from our European friends on using white diesel.
Are there any concerns there?

 

[Sandy]

After I had a dose of the bug, while using red and I am convinced it was because the low turn over at that marina, I now clean the tank every three years. On my boat a simple job of removing a panel, undoing a few bolts and unplugging the piping and removing the tank. Don't think that all boats are as well thought out.

 

[Graham376]

I would be interested to hear any comments from our European friends on using white diesel.
Are there any concerns there?

Read #30. As I said, I've been using white for 15 years without problems. Most boats I've heard of here with bug have come down from UK and have previously used red, it's a rare problem with local boats on white. I pumped about 10 litres from the bottom of my tank a couple of years ago (30+ years old and never been cleaned) and found no water or sludge. I always dose with Fuel Set and some of my tank contents are 3-4 years old and it runs fine. Fears about white being a problem are bull***t in my opinion.

 

[Daydream believer]

I have 8/ 20 litre jerry cans at home, which i keep filled when visiting the supermarket. I look for lower prices when possible.Then I take a can to the boat when needed. Most seasons I go to France & so fill up the tank & 3 cans at Boulogne; certainly on the way home . That keeps me going for a while. Because I may have to cruise the UK coast this year & next I have made a collapsible trolley for my Brompton E-bike. I will just go to the nearest supermarket to collect a couple of cans when visiting UK marinas if white fuel is not available .
I do not suffer from diesel bug but do have a more regular turnover of fuel as I get older & motor rather than sail, if conditions outside harbour make handling sails, lines & fenders awkward.
I keep the tank full when not using the boat.

 

[westhinder]

I would be interested to hear any comments from our European friends on using white diesel.
Are there any concerns there?

See post #11. I haven’t heard of any problems. Where I keep my boat there are about 2000 yachts and moto’s. If it was a real concern, it would certainly do the rounds on the pontoons.

 

[Slowtack]

I changed to white diesel a few years ago when I installed a new engine...................tank is much cleaner since, less gunk in the separator/agglomerator and the primary filter bowl.

 

[davidaprice]

I would be interested to hear any comments from our European friends on using white diesel.
Are there any concerns there?

In Finland no-one seems to be worried about diesel bug, though big chandleries do stock diesel treatments. The main diesel supplier along the coast is Seapoint, which uses 'renewable' diesel from the largest manufacturer Neste (the former state oil company). All of Neste's diesel in the Nordic countries is FAME-free. Information about Neste's renewable diesel: NEXBTL Technology

 

[penfold]

If you're concerned about bug growth a maintenance-level dose of biocide is not going to break the bank, even the pricey ones are about 4p a litre pro-rata. Find something worthwhile to worry about.