Which type of boat for ocean passage and canals?

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Kissathecat

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Help!

My husband and I started taking sailing lesson when we were first married as something to do together. We progressed to buying a gallian 22 last spring a really loved it. Over the winter we have completed our Day Skipper and Coastal skipper theory with the practical in March.

We both love it so much that thoughts have turned to live aboard and high adventure. We are keen to do some long distance passages and thought that the World Cruising Club rally may be a safe place to start. This dictates a minimum 40' (12.19m) boat. We are also interested in sailing the European cannals which means a shallow draft (1.4m max) Is there a boat that does both?

We also need to be able to sail single handed as there is only the two of us - so which sail configeration is best?

Any help greatly recieved - oh and our budget would be up to about £40k

Are we asking too much from one boat? Thanks
 
Welcome! Taking some of the points in turn . .
  1. If you're talking about transiting north-south through France then the maximum draft is notionally 1.8m, although there's a lot of discussion about how realistic that is and perhaps 1.6m might be considered a 'safer' maximum. So a moderate fin-keel would be possible.
  2. Easier would be a bilge-keeler, but I can't comment about suitability for ocean passages and feasible relationship with a 40' length. I'm well aware that bilge keelers have made long trips, but maybe in the hands of the particularly adventurous/salt-caked.
  3. Our own experience has been in a swing-keel yacht, just about as perfect as a yacht could be on the inland waterways, draft 800mm keel-up. But not 40' length, could easily exceed your budget by a large margin.
  4. 1) or 2) above, not sure about what you might get that meets your criteria for £40k. Other folks here on YBW possibly would.
 
The simple answer to your last question is (probably) Yes. £40k does not buy you much to do what you want to do. Boats over 36ft (except cats) shallow enough to go through the canals are rare. in general you will be looking at 30-40 year old boats with all the attendant problems of age and wear or odd ball (possibly home completed) boats.

When you start looking, be aware that you are likely to have to spend 25% or more of the purchase price bringing it up to your standard - or prepared to put up with worn out sails, iffy engine, shabby interior, old fashioned electronics etc (not necessarily all on the same boat - otherwise run!). Folks do undertake your kind of voyage on budgets of less than £40k - some much less, but not in a well equipped modern 40 footer.

Up your budget to £60k and a whole new world opens up. For example my 10 year old Bavaria 37 would be around £55k and is just about ready to go having just done the Med trip (not for sale, though). There are many similar boats in the mid 30s size (but not all shallow draft) in that price range.

You might consider doing a 2 week bareboat in say, Greece or Turkey to get some experience of living on a boat in hot climates. Apart from being a great holiday you will learn a great deal. We did this and after 3 years bought our own boat.

There is masses published covering this subject - books, magazine articles, blogs etc plus of course active forums and organisations such as the Cruising Association where you can meet like minded people.

Hope this helps and good luck
 
It all depends on which canals and maybe rivers you mean.
E.g. in Holland almost all navigable canals have a minimum depth of 1.6 meter but most are deeper.
In germany there's much difference but canals with commercial traffic mostly are 2.5 meter.
Another thing to think about is your minimum height. if you choose a ketch rig there may be a bit less need to frequently lower the mast(s) . However two lowered masts on a boat is really difficult.
Inland canals do have bridge heights of 2.5 - 45 meters for fixed bridges so a mast that can be lowered/ removed is a must.
A slf lowering device is possible , also on bigger yachts but costly if you can't do it yourself.
If you also want to sail on rivers (most times by engine) you will need a strong engine , especially on the river Rhine ( e.g. to go to the Black sea) because currents up to 6 knots do occur!

Summerized: It depend very much on what you really want!
Ad
 
Rude word

Sorry I did not know the Swedish version was a rude word. I called myself this as kissa is the Finnish word for cat:)

I'll remember the difference next time I go to Sweden!
 
Thanks for the replies

I think our main problem with choosing a boat is that we do not know exactly what we want to do. We want a boat that is versitile enough to leave our options open - maybe we are being unrealistic?

Thanks for the depth information on the European Canals Yellowboat and Grehan the deeper depths obviously gives us a lot more choice.

The bare boat idea is a very good one Tranona - would ensure that we went in with our eye open!
 
That budget size and the canal requirement does not rule out boats that would be relatively comfortable as a liveaboard, although the compromise required will impact sailing performance.

The following catamarans should be available in that budget, and will be suitable for the canal:

Catalac 8 and 9metre
Prout Quest 31 and 33
Heavenly Twins

Catalac probably has the best living space, but performance to windward would be the worst (not impossible, but does take effort!)

The Prout is probably the best sailing boat, but may well need some upgrading.

HT is the smallest, but makes good use of space.
 
Maybe, maybe not. Plenty (hundreds, thousands . . ) of people take yachts through the French canals to the Med and go sailing there. Quite possible for a modest boat to experience both, very enjoyably. Modest in price, modest in size.
However, a squaring the circle of a biggish boat, a modest budget and trans-ocean cruising as well as cruising the canals (beyond, say, the 'through route') might be difficult or require a great deal of flexibility.
Great to have a dream. Good idea to put some flesh on the bones by trying a few things out (as Tranona suggests) before you cast off for good :)
French canal depths/routes to the Mediterranean
 
I'm not sure that jumping straight to a 40 ft boat in order to satisfy the requirements for a WCC rally is the correct approach. Plenty of boats smaller than 40 ft have carried out extensive voyages and e.g. plenty of 33 ft or so boats do the ARC each year. Downsizing your requirements a little will give you many more options for your budget, especially for shallow draught.
 
Kissathecat said:
I think our main problem with choosing a boat is that we do not know exactly what we want to do. We want a boat that is versitile enough to leave our options open - maybe we are being unrealistic?

Thanks for the depth information on the European Canals Yellowboat and Grehan the deeper depths obviously gives us a lot more choice.

The bare boat idea is a very good one Tranona - would ensure that we went in with our eye open!
Click to expand...

No, you are not being unrealistic in the versatility of the boat. There are many mid 30 footers, particularly various Moody and Westerly centre cockpit boats - Seahawk, Corsair, Renown 33, 333, 34, 346 36 37 376 and so on that will do what you want. The problem is that it is only the older and smaller ones that will fit your budget. As I said before upping the budget widens the choice.

Many people have cruised extensively in the 1970s era Moody 33 and 36 - indeed in their day they were the epitome of the breed. But times have moved on and not only are they now old and well used, but expectations have also changed. However, if you recognise their limitations, are good at DIY and most importantly can find a good one very suitable. Indeed when we bought our Bavaria in 2001 the leading alternative was a Moody 33 Mk2, but even then it was difficult to find one that did not need work - and we wanted to go sailing not building a boat on the move!
 
Talbot said:
The following catamarans should be available in that budget, and will be suitable for the canal:

Catalac 8 and 9metre
Prout Quest 31 and 33
Heavenly Twins
Click to expand...

I took a Prout Quest through the canals then on to Miami back in 1979 with no problem. The advantage in the canals was that the bollards and ladders on both sides of the lock were in reach. The square shape of a catamaran fit the lock sides better than a pointy mono. The mast was carried on the centre line and almost impossible to contact the lock sides.

The down side was that some lock keepers would only open one gate because it required a long walk to cross over to the other gate which is OK for a mono. The other downside was that a catamaran was great to moor to the canal bank. However, if I ever went shopping I invariably came back to see that my cat had been used as a convenient pontoon with a mono rafted up outside.
 
vyv_cox said:
I'm not sure that jumping straight to a 40 ft boat in order to satisfy the requirements for a WCC rally is the correct approach. Plenty of boats smaller than 40 ft have carried out extensive voyages and e.g. plenty of 33 ft or so boats do the ARC each year. Downsizing your requirements a little will give you many more options for your budget, especially for shallow draught.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, ability to take part in the WCC rally should not be a main determinant of your choice of boat, you'll almost certainly be a lot more comfortable with smaller. My first boat is just under 30 feet, I'm not sure I'd have singlehanded anything much bigger. Have a trawl through Yachtsnet Archive as a starting point and good luck...
 
In the canals 30/32 ft would be great. However ocean sailing 40/42ft better. both single handleable imo. so if you can afford it then go for the larger size, living aboard you really need some space. Unless you really want to 'camp'. Obviously a couple managing a boat size depends on how experienced you are but try before you buy is a very good maxim. Personally I'd try a canal & deep water cruising holiday before deciding on a particular boat.
Welcome & good luck & let us know how you get on.
 
Oh just re read your original post & completely missed the rig part. Ketch for sure. Reason. Most of our ocean passages have been without the mainsail! Mizzen & Genoa, fab combination. Lower aspect, prob not so good in light wind but much more comfortable in strong wind & big swell. You have the option of all sail in light airs and reduced genoa and reefed mizzen in heavy weather. Very balanced, an older heavier displacement boat may be your option. I understand that modern lightweight designs are built for speed not comfort. Bit like women really:D
 
FWIW I know of a (bilge-keeled) Westerly Pentland for sale down where I am in southern Spain this week.
Very reasonable sub-£20k price.
wcnk034.jpg

PM me if anyone's interested.
 
pauldoody said:
The warrior 38 or 40 will do both canals and ocean. They were designed by Primrose and Dixon and there brief was a shallow draft blue water vessel. the draft is 5 feet.
Click to expand...

Agreed. But you won't find one for £40k! An earlier Voyager/Warrior 35 would do the job, but the usual caveats about age and condition.
 
ZigmundoVanDog said:
... built for speed not comfort. Bit like women really:D
Click to expand...

Or Little Bill Broonzy?

Meanwhile, back to the question, I'll thrown in my two penn'orth that to be dictated by an event rule is aft about bow. In all likelyhood £40K will only buy a suitable 40-plus-footer if it's an oddball in ferro or maybe steel. Whatever it is, at that price it's likely to need lots spending on it. Something in the mid-30 feet range might be just about doable, and certainly up to the job of everything but qualifying as a 40-footer.

Perhaps buy a 36-footer and stick on a bowsprit :)
 
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