Which Trailer Sailer?

[paulphillips]

I have done the usual start with a small boat and work my way up to a 30 footer, then begin to downsize, ending up with an Etap 23 which I trailer home every winter. I would now like to go one step smaller and am looking at something I could properly trailer sail, by which I mean keep at home, trail to a lake on a Thursday or Friday evening, set up launch and be back at home after a long weekend. This would mainly be solo, but occasionally with teenage son in tow. I'm looking at Swift 18, Manta 19 or anything easy to launch and recover. I have large 4 x 4 and tow trailers for a living. Must have space for Porta Potty, camping stove and 2 berths and preferably beachable. Budget £3-4K. Any thoughts or ideas out there.

 

[Alfie168]

A bit over budget, but I'd look at a Pippin 20 as they are beautifully and robustly made and very roomy. Easy to launch and rig. I've seen them on ApolloDuck around the £7k mark.....which is quite a drop from prices of only a few years back. I had a chat with an owner at Lulworth. He and his wife had sailed from Weymouth for the day and were sailing back. It's a bit more nicely made than a Swift, which I also have a high opinion of, will be cheaper, but its harder to do g a really nice one.

Tim

 

[Alfie168]

I meant to say the Swift will be cheaper, but harder to find a nice one. This tablet won't let me edit my posts.

Tim

 

[Avocet]

We had an Evolution 22some years ago. A great lake boat with a good turn of speed if you put up enough canvas! Lift keel, so dead easy to beach. Excellent accommodation for a 22 footer. Headroom restricted, of course. Downsides - the transom-hung rudder wasn't a great design, and it wasn't especially easy to position correctly on the trailer. You might get one for around your budget.

 

[William_H]

Looking at the Etap 23 I think it a bit sad that you are considering a smaller boat to be easier to rig and launch.
I wonder just what the problems with the Etap 23 can be and if they can be overcome.
I note it has a bulb keel which then presumably requires more water to float in and deeper ramp to launch from.
Would it be a crazy idea to consider making a new keel of cast iron or lead and GRP with enough mass to give the self righting (along with ballast under floor). The new keel could retract entirely into the hull so permitting lower carriage on the trailer and less water needed to float it in.
My little 21ft is similar to this arrangement. I made launching easier by reducing the height of the boat off the road. This has a non continuous axle on the trailer ie stepped down as it goes across the middle. I then managed to move the spring hangers U bolts to again reduce the height. I also had to fit a new draw bar and fitted this at an angle so boat sits more stern down on the trailer. This also reduces the depth of water needed. I have retrieved it from dry sand and usually launch/recover with just the back rollers of the trailer under water. ie about 35cms deep at the back of the trailer. Wheel hub above water.
If it is rigging that is the problem. Various gadgets can aid mast raising single handed. I have a 2 level pole at the stern to support the mast. One low level just holds the mast above the cabin when towed and the high level I lift the mast up into is 2m from cockpit floor means mast is much easier to haul up. You need good side support for the mast as she goes up. One idea is 2 additional side stays on chain plates on cabin top immediately in line with the mast pivot. So they are always tight through the mast swing up so no chance of sideways swing. Twin spin poles as gin poles make the hoisting much easier than staying a single pole. I have fittings on the side deck to take the pole ends. I have a high field lever to quickly tension the whole fractional rig.
I have seen, I think an arrangement of a track for the base of the mast. The track runs from the mast base forward down the deck to a point near the bow. This makes getting the mast base into the deck fitting much easier. Perhaps a bit too much trouble. Might be worth a thought as to me psitioning the mast base in its fitting is the most difficult part of rigging.
For the costs of changing boats you might consider getting an old smaller (lighter) mast and rigging with smaller sails (or main reefed) to make rigging easier.
What I am suggesting is that you consider keeping the Etap just think about making the rigging easier. I reckon I can sail away on my 21 in about 30 mins from arrival at the ramp. (even though like you I only do it once per season.)
Just few thoughts olewill

 

[paulphillips]

Looking at the Etap 23 I think it a bit sad that you are considering a smaller boat to be easier to rig and launch.
I wonder just what the problems with the Etap 23 can be and if they can be overcome.
I note it has a bulb keel which then presumably requires more water to float in and deeper ramp to launch from.
Would it be a crazy idea to consider making a new keel of cast iron or lead and GRP with enough mass to give the self righting (along with ballast under floor). The new keel could retract entirely into the hull so permitting lower carriage on the trailer and less water needed to float it in.
My little 21ft is similar to this arrangement. I made launching easier by reducing the height of the boat off the road. This has a non continuous axle on the trailer ie stepped down as it goes across the middle. I then managed to move the spring hangers U bolts to again reduce the height. I also had to fit a new draw bar and fitted this at an angle so boat sits more stern down on the trailer. This also reduces the depth of water needed. I have retrieved it from dry sand and usually launch/recover with just the back rollers of the trailer under water. ie about 35cms deep at the back of the trailer. Wheel hub above water.
If it is rigging that is the problem. Various gadgets can aid mast raising single handed. I have a 2 level pole at the stern to support the mast. One low level just holds the mast above the cabin when towed and the high level I lift the mast up into is 2m from cockpit floor means mast is much easier to haul up. You need good side support for the mast as she goes up. One idea is 2 additional side stays on chain plates on cabin top immediately in line with the mast pivot. So they are always tight through the mast swing up so no chance of sideways swing. Twin spin poles as gin poles make the hoisting much easier than staying a single pole. I have fittings on the side deck to take the pole ends. I have a high field lever to quickly tension the whole fractional rig.
I have seen, I think an arrangement of a track for the base of the mast. The track runs from the mast base forward down the deck to a point near the bow. This makes getting the mast base into the deck fitting much easier. Perhaps a bit too much trouble. Might be worth a thought as to me psitioning the mast base in its fitting is the most difficult part of rigging.
For the costs of changing boats you might consider getting an old smaller (lighter) mast and rigging with smaller sails (or main reefed) to make rigging easier.
What I am suggesting is that you consider keeping the Etap just think about making the rigging easier. I reckon I can sail away on my 21 in about 30 mins from arrival at the ramp. (even though like you I only do it once per season.)
Just few thoughts olewill

That sounds an ideal solution, but is it actually feasible, if so why didn't Etap do it in the first place? The bulb is quite large and therefore heavy, plus I would need to remove that and a foot off the keel to make it flush bottomed and sit lower on the trailer. I could consider shortening the mast to compensate to some extent, but have no idea of the engineering or calculations behind it. Pity as the 23 is a fabulous boat. Anybody tackled anything like this before?

 

[Giblets]

Would a Leisure 17 meet the bill?

 

[Fantasie 19]

I have done the usual start with a small boat and work my way up to a 30 footer, then begin to downsize, ending up with an Etap 23 which I trailer home every winter. I would now like to go one step smaller and am looking at something I could properly trailer sail, by which I mean keep at home, trail to a lake on a Thursday or Friday evening, set up launch and be back at home after a long weekend. This would mainly be solo, but occasionally with teenage son in tow. I'm looking at Swift 18, Manta 19 or anything easy to launch and recover. I have large 4 x 4 and tow trailers for a living. Must have space for Porta Potty, camping stove and 2 berths and preferably beachable. Budget £3-4K. Any thoughts or ideas out there.

If you can find one at the price, a Hunter 20, probably the Mini C rather than the Sport... http://www.britishhunter.co.uk/page19.html

 

[TSB240]

I have done the usual start with a small boat and work my way up to a 30 footer, then begin to downsize, ending up with an Etap 23 which I trailer home every winter. I would now like to go one step smaller and am looking at something I could properly trailer sail, by which I mean keep at home, trail to a lake on a Thursday or Friday evening, set up launch and be back at home after a long weekend. This would mainly be solo, but occasionally with teenage son in tow. I'm looking at Swift 18, Manta 19 or anything easy to launch and recover. I have large 4 x 4 and tow trailers for a living. Must have space for Porta Potty, camping stove and 2 berths and preferably beachable. Budget £3-4K. Any thoughts or ideas out there.

You are wanting something easily launched, rigged and trailed despite having a 4 by 4.

Red Fox?
Swallow Boats simple water ballast easy to rig and launch.
Hawke?
Sunfast 20 or similar polish lakes boat?

IMHO Think big dinghy rather than trailable yacht!

I have been through the beachable trailable yacht with a Trapper TS 240
You can make it easier to rig with a Gin Pole but I had to allow half a day for rigging and launching and the same for recovery..

 

[DownWest]

You are wanting something easily launched, rigged and trailed despite having a 4 by 4.

Red Fox?
Swallow Boats simple water ballast easy to rig and launch.
Hawke?
Sunfast 20 or similar polish lakes boat?

IMHO Think big dinghy rather than trailable yacht!
..

Think there would be budget probs on most of those boats.

I would not change the keel or basic rig on any boat, unless you know what you are doing. Plus such mods would reduce resale.
But you can do quite a lot to make rigging a boat faster. tabernackle rather than hinge or socket for the mast foot. Forestay on a tackle, the above mentioned gin pole, or an A frame. Sails left on the mast and boom.

 

[Nina Lucia]

Etap 23, best think ever!
We have bought Dot last year, trailed to Croatia, we have sailed 1000 miles last summer. we have left her there as ou summer holliday base.

 

[William_H]

That sounds an ideal solution, but is it actually feasible, if so why didn't Etap do it in the first place? The bulb is quite large and therefore heavy, plus I would need to remove that and a foot off the keel to make it flush bottomed and sit lower on the trailer. I could consider shortening the mast to compensate to some extent, but have no idea of the engineering or calculations behind it. Pity as the 23 is a fabulous boat. Anybody tackled anything like this before?

Yes you are talking a major job. The trailer would need major surgery to carry the boat much lower to the road without the bulb keel. I would suggest it might be easier to make a new keel. This could be cast out of iron or my preference would be to mold GRP around lead. Now you are right to ask why etap was not designed this way. The answer is that it is a choice of compromises. Bulb on the keel gives best righting moment but more difficult launching. There are several different designs of oz trailer sailers including my own where the keel is with drawn into the hull. In some cases the top of the CB case is open allowing the keel to extend out the top when retracted.
So no need for a shorter keel just no bulb. In my boat there is an equal weight of ballast under the floor but later models have a cast iron keel and I think no internal ballast.
Here are some photos of my type of boat Castle 650 you can see how low it is on the trailer.
Sonata has various sizes all with flush keel when retracted.
Just a few more thoughts. Perhaps you should try the market for the Etap that may convince you to keep it. olewill