Which trailer sailer!

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springermad

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I am looking for a lifting keel yacht which is to be kept on an East Coast mud/ drying mooring and used with children (10 & 13) on board. Budget wise £10 to £14K. I have looked at the Beneteau First 211 which is nice but sits high on the trailer and needs deep water to launch. The Jeanneau Sun 2000 appears to sit a great deal lower on the trailer but lacks a weighted keel, have also read comments on lack of stability and not so good on a drying mooring. Does any one have experience of the Jeanneau or can make other comments on suitable craft. I had looked around for a Dehler but appear to be rather rare! Comments and advice appreciated.
 
Do you mean a boat which can go on a trailer for say winter or maybe repositioning for a distant summer cruise, or a boat on and off the trailer regularly ?

The latter is a serious pain.

With the former, keeping the boat on a mooring in the season, bear in mind she will need to be winter stored high enough to allow access and maintenance to the keel plate.

It's possible to modify trailers to allow raising the boat and / or lowering the keel into a pit, but it's quite a serious undertaking; I have my lift keeler lifted onto high trestles ( home made but a lot of Andersons use the design ) at my club.

When buying a lift keel boat it's well worth finding out if this maintenance has been done in the past.
 
Lifting keels and mud moorings can be a right pain, especially if the keel drops by its own weight, swing keels probably worse than lift keels. The mud can work right up inside the casing and make it a real job to get the keel down unless you have easy access. It only takes a small shell to wedge in place and its stuck. I ended up getting an access hole away from the pivot point made with a screw in fitting (stop the mud smell) in the table across the box so I could poke a steel rod down to push the keel down. It was amazingly hard to do sometimes. If you are only going to launch/recover once per season then why not get a bilge keeler. I launched my Vivacity 650 off the ramp at Northney no problem. Had it craned back on at the end of the season though as much easier.

My Viva 700 trailer sailer is for sale with Slipway Marine down at Emsworth. Slightly more money than you are looking to spend but more room than the two you listed. I now have a Westerly Konsort as we wanted something bigger. Viva 700 sails really well, but then I am biased (overtook a Sun 2000 and First 211). Alternate is the Classic 700 with the 300Kg lift keel. She sails really well too as I tried one before I bought the Viva. Not much room down below but with all the weight in the keel somewhat stiffer.
 
I'm always amazed by the design of other lift keels.

The Anderson 22 has a ballast bulb which stays outside the hull ( also keeps the hull off stones and pointy things generally ) - this bulb is veed on top, so fairs in with the hull; in 34 years I have never had mud or stones in the casing, and she settles dead upright in mud.

Keel up she draws 2', so more than an E-Boat or Swift 18 but hardly a lot and she's considerably more seaworthy...
 
I've kept a Sun 2000 on a drying mooring since the start of April and have had no problems so far with the centreboard. I leave about 30mm of slack in the lowering line so the board moves up and down slightly on every tide to help keep it free - this doesn't seem to cause any problems. The boat is certainly more tender than my last bilge keeler but not unpredictably so - it's easy to de-power quickly . It is perhaps slightly over-canvassed with too-shallow reefs. Accommodation wise I think it is an excellent design both on deck and below, considering its size. I looked at the Benny 211 but ruled it out because of the keel stub. The 1' draft of the Jenneau makes it easy to embark and disembark crew off the beach. Definitely nearer the exciting rather than steady end of the scale.
 
If you're planning on staying aboard regularly I'd go for a bilge keel rather than anything that brings the keel up into the cabin. My Medina (much less than your budget) is great to sail but cramped at night. Might be a consideration?
 
AngusMcDoon said:
Any pictures of the interior of a non-messed up lift keel boat?
Click to expand...

Late_keel_case.jpg


Like this you mean? Even has a jolly small telly.
 
Having been a lift keel owner fro over 30 years a few comments. A vertically lifting keel can end up with a big area of the forward cabin taken up by the keel lifting area. ie mast support post back about .8metre. This is how mine is but it restricts access to the forward cabin or at least gives that impression. A lift keel can fit right into the hull like mine making winching onto a trailer very easy and a hull that will sit flat on sand plus very low draft with keel and rudder up.
Another option I have seen is a swing keel. One local type around here has a stub keel into which the swing keel slots but does not rise above the floor. So interior is the same for swing keel as fin keel version. However the stub keel adds about 30cms to the draft so making winching onto the trailer more difficult and more headroom needed for storage.
A last variation of one local boat has a swing keel with no stub keel this there is a keel box extending from entrance to the mast support about 35cms high which divides cabin longitudinally. This is a horrible arrangement making the main cabin awkward to move around in. But it does make shallow draft flat bottom.
The next compromise is weight of the boat. Light weight is good for towing and retrieval but inevitably horrible in a choppy water especially on the nose and of course quite tender. Such that you will need good easy reefing. Mine is 950kg for a 6.5 metre boat. Though a new one is claimed to be 850kg. (fully rigged no engine)
I feel that under floor ballast is quite successful. Minne has about 150kg under the floor and a 100kg lead inside fibreglass keel. It has been recently tested to (just) meet AYF horizontal stability test as required for ocean racing. Nevertheless it has always been quite tender but if you have the right sail area it is quite fast.
Engine mount is often a matter of contention. Mine has always been on a transom bracket. It is adjustable height so can cope in pitching seas. A motor mounted in a well either centre or to one side does cope with pitching better but has difficulties of raising the motor. I have one friend witha 24fter who has fitted a transom mount for o/b and sealed up the of centre well. Mainly for ease of lifting motor and removal.
I think a proper foil shaped keel is vastly better in performance than a flat plate. Likewise a foil shaped deep rudder.

I hope these few thoughts will enable you to manage the compromises to get a boat that you are happy with. I was fortunate that my boat suits me or was it that I have modified my usage to suit the boat? In fact my little boat is mostly used for racing and a little sail training. I do love having it at home for the winter where it is a pleasure to do the maintenance. good luck olewill
 
Dear OP
You haven' t said why you want a trailer sailer to put on a drying mooring. I would have thought that one of the many bilge or triple keelers around the UK would be just the ticket, and a lot cheaper to buy. One with a trailer would be great. If you are only launching and retrieving occasionally during the year, the ease of getting on and off the trailer is not really relevant. The French seem to love their swing keels, but IMHO there are plenty of maintenance issues, and the lesser performance of the bilge keeler is worth the simplicity benefits.
 
Twister Ken,

there's always one...

Actually I think that an ideal place to keep the flares; joking about the effects of emergencies aside, it means crew will notice and be familiar with their location !

Any chance someone could put up the proper shot of the saloon ?!
 
springermad said:
I am looking for a lifting keel yacht which is to be kept on an East Coast mud/ drying mooring and used with children (10 & 13) on board. Budget wise £10 to £14K. I have looked at the Beneteau First 211 which is nice but sits high on the trailer and needs deep water to launch. The Jeanneau Sun 2000 appears to sit a great deal lower on the trailer but lacks a weighted keel, have also read comments on lack of stability and not so good on a drying mooring. Does any one have experience of the Jeanneau or can make other comments on suitable craft. I had looked around for a Dehler but appear to be rather rare! Comments and advice appreciated.
Click to expand...

How deep is your mud?

In my experience any of the bulbed or stub keel lift keel yachts will need a fair bit of mud to stay upright.

The Bendytoy with stub keel does not sit on its rudders it needs legs to dry out except in very deep mud.

Compromise is to go for a boat without a bulb. Parkers are another possibility (designed and built for east coast) and are more of a yacht than a dinghy with a cabin top.Sail very well.

I found the ballasted hull jennies to be very tender.

There are good reports coming out about the water ballasted Bay Raider.

Now how about a nice Macgreggor . Will be a collectors item now they have stopped making them.............

Of course there is the Anderson but it has no side decks......Its slow in comparison to most lift keel yachts and they are mostly well outside your price range....

I have been very careful not to push the boat I own so far......
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=3633

Very happy regarding lift keel. Performance is exceptional for a 24 footer, roomy beamy design.We are trailing her to Brittany in 3 weeks time and easily launch and recover on our self/purpose built trailer without getting the wheels of our tow vehicle wet.
 
TSB240 said:
How deep is your mud?

In my experience any of the bulbed or stub keel lift keel yachts will need a fair bit of mud to stay upright.

The Bendytoy with stub keel does not sit on its rudders it needs legs to dry out except in very deep mud.

Compromise is to go for a boat without a bulb. Parkers are another possibility (designed and built for east coast) and are more of a yacht than a dinghy with a cabin top.Sail very well.

I found the ballasted hull jennies to be very tender.

There are good reports coming out about the water ballasted Bay Raider.

Now how about a nice Macgreggor . Will be a collectors item now they have stopped making them.............

Of course there is the Anderson but it has no side decks......Its slow in comparison to most lift keel yachts and they are mostly well outside your price range....

I have been very careful not to push the boat I own so far......
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=3633

Very happy regarding lift keel. Performance is exceptional for a 24 footer, roomy beamy design.We are trailing her to Brittany in 3 weeks time and easily launch and recover on our self/purpose built trailer without getting the wheels of our tow vehicle wet.
Click to expand...

Obviously a wind-up merchant...:)

No-one calls the Anderson slow, especially in waves which will stop a lot of boats dead.

She does have side decks, for instance when coming alongside a pontoon etc it's standard practice for crew to stand on them outside the guardrails hanging onto the shrouds, at the widest part of the boat.

Yes one does require enough mud to sink the keel bulb into - it's 9" below the hull - but then bouncing on a hard seabed is cruel on any boat.

The snag with fully retractable keels is it means the hull is settling the full weight on any stone or other nasty pointy object, + a ballast bulb

A, puts ballast weight in the best place

B, in the case of the A22 has an ' end plate ' effect.

Incidentally my A22 has done 20 Channel crossings and beat into a 7 gusting 11 in the Chichester / Eastern Solent area; 3 A22's have crossed the Atlantic.
 
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