which sailing dinghy

Iain C said:
Sorry, but I have to disagree. The OP is after a singlehander (please correct me if wrong Chris) so an Enterprise, which not only has a jib, but also aft sheeting meaning you tack backwards, is not a great choice to learn in IMHO.

I would also say that unless you are wearing totally innappropriate clothing, how dry a boat is to sail is totally irrelevant. You are likely to be wading at least knee deep to launch, so wetsuit etc is utterly essential. Any dinghy is going to be wet when you really get it going, and whether you capsize a Wayfarer or a Moth, you end up equally wet. A Phantom is designed as a singlehander for big people, but light enough to be launched easily, and righted easily by one person...why look further?
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I think it depends whether a Phantom is in budget?
I disagree (a bit) about the wet nature of boats not mattering. A boat that is constantly soaking you with spray is much colder to sail in winter, compared to something which keeps you drier. So if you go for a boat with lower freeboard you will be more dependent on good clothing to keep you warm.

Many generations of people grew up with transom sheeting, and many of them happily sailed two sail transom main boats singlehanded. It's not hard, it's just not the current mainstream way, so won't fit into every sailing course.
 
Being wet from the knees down is totally different to being wet all over, and then 'sitting in it'. And yes, even when wearing a wetsuit, given winter is almost upon us.
All of the boats I suggested can easilly be sailed by one person with no jib.
One of the big things when learning to sail is confidence. And I would argue that most people would probably feel more secure in a 'sit in boat' compared to a 'sit on boat'.


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Robwhelton said:
Not disagreeing with you, but I consider it a very bad day if my feet get wet when launching/sailing a Wayfarer.
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How do you manage that, then? Do you have a slipway with a pontoon along it or something?

lw395 said:
Many generations of people grew up with transom sheeting, and many of them happily sailed two sail transom main boats singlehanded. It's not hard, it's just not the current mainstream way, so won't fit into every sailing course.
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Personally I don't get on at all with central mainsheets. I like it behind the tiller even on a yacht.

Pete
 
I think a lot of people forget that it is size and weight together that is really driving the choice here. If you are just heavy, then there are many other boats that you can consider. If you are very tall and normal weight again your choice of boats also opens up a lot. Combine the two and you will be surprised how many dinghies just don't fit.

There is nothing more frustrating than getting bruises all over your body, because your shins hit the centreboard case, head hits the boom, bash your calves on the side tanks, can't put your feet between side tank and centreboard unless twisted..... Once you are into Wanderer/Wayfarer territory (which are big enough) you are talking about boats that are 140kg plus and will be difficult to impossible to haul up a beach on your own. (Phantom is 61kg, Solo 70kg by comparison).

I can't help but think that the OP should start with a Solo (which he should be able to get for £500) and then move onto a Phantom when he has confirmed he likes sailing and could justify pushing the budget a bit more for a good Phantom or even Finn if there is a fleet nearby.

Why push people away from boats that have been specifically designed for their height and weight characteristics? The Solo is an easy entry point that is low risk financially before moving onto better fit boats.
 
Iain C said:
Sorry, but I have to disagree. The OP is after a singlehander (please correct me if wrong Chris) so an Enterprise, which not only has a jib, but also aft sheeting meaning you tack backwards, is not a great choice to learn in IMHO.

I would also say that unless you are wearing totally innappropriate clothing, how dry a boat is to sail is totally irrelevant. You are likely to be wading at least knee deep to launch, so wetsuit etc is utterly essential. Any dinghy is going to be wet when you really get it going, and whether you capsize a Wayfarer or a Moth, you end up equally wet. A Phantom is designed as a singlehander for big people, but light enough to be launched easily, and righted easily by one person...why look further?
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It depends entirely how you sail. I learnt sailing in a Heron, many years ago, and single-handed it quite a lot. I NEVER capsized it, didn't get wet when launching her, and she was a dry boat to sail. OK, I accept that competitive dinghy racing is a different kettle of fish, but it isn't a given that you will get wet sailing a dinghy. And I had plenty of fun; a Heron is plenty for a rather light-weight teenage lad to handle. I soon learnt to handle the jib when tacking; we did have jamming cleats for the jib though, which were (I think) at the time excluded by class regulations. But we sailed for fun, not to race, so that didn't matter.

When I were a lad, wet-suits were for divers - dinghy sailors wore woolly pullovers and shorts or jeans (which were work-wear then, not fashion items)! So, capsizing was NOT something you did routinely; you knew the drill for when it happened, but on the whole you avoided it (except if you were a light crew, it was a windy day and the weight of a wet wollen pullover would help a bit!). Seriously, getting sodden on a cold day was a serious matter, so you avoided it. Remember, in the early 60s (which is when I am talking about), people changed clothes less often than they do these days, and usually possessed fewer clothes. Tumble driers were a rarity (I saw one for the first time in a laundrette when I was in my late teens); even spin-driers were new-fangled and not something every house-hold had; I can remember my Mum having a washing machine that had a mangle mounted over the tub to dry the clothes! So everything had to dry on a line or on a clothes-horse; it tended to limit how much laundry got done, even in the best regulated house-holds. And few houses had central-heating, so drying clothes in the winter could be a long job; again I can remember clothes-horses positioned round the fire to dry clothes.
 
rb_stretch said:
.....
Why push people away from boats that have been specifically designed for their height and weight characteristics? The Solo is an easy entry point that is low risk financially before moving onto better fit boats.
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There are a lot of Solos at my club, none of them sailed by big people.
But I think they would carry the weight well enough.
A lot comes down to money unfortunately, you are much more likely to get a seaworthy GRP Solo or Enterprise for under a grand than a Phantom.
If you have the facilities, time and inclination to look after a wooden boat, a whole bigger range appears.
 
Iain C said:
Sorry, but I have to disagree. The OP is after a singlehander (please correct me if wrong Chris) so an Enterprise, which not only has a jib, but also aft sheeting meaning you tack backwards, is not a great choice to learn in IMHO.

I would also say that unless you are wearing totally innappropriate clothing, how dry a boat is to sail is totally irrelevant. You are likely to be wading at least knee deep to launch, so wetsuit etc is utterly essential. Any dinghy is going to be wet when you really get it going, and whether you capsize a Wayfarer or a Moth, you end up equally wet. A Phantom is designed as a singlehander for big people, but light enough to be launched easily, and righted easily by one person...why look further?
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yes Iain single hander is what i am after,no frills sailing ,a hull i can sit in rather than hang off ,(im too tall for hanging from small dinghys and learning that way), and a sail.
like i said earlier ,a large wooden pallet with a single main sail would do:)
im beginning to think buying a 21 foot corribee may be the only boat to fit me for a beginner te he :D
 
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I agree that some of my suggestions are quite heavy beasts, but thats why I also mentioned some modern equivalents. Bear in mind also that the OP is quite a substantial chap so weight of the boat ashore is less of an issue.

We need to remember that the OP is looking for a boat in which to learn how to sail. Phantoms, Finns and even Solos were (as far as I know) designed more as racing craft than learning craft. Boats like Wayfarers etc are sedate, stable, forgiving, dry and more. Whilst fairly boring for the experienced thrill seaking sailor, these reasons are exactly the reasons why sailing schools used them for so long, and many still do.

Most adults (probably) do not intend or want to spend their 'learning time' swimming, righting the boat or getting soaked. They want to learn how to make the thing go where they want to. Of course capsizing etc comes into it for safety reasons, but this should not be a priority.

Look at the RYA syllabus. Capsizing is left to the end. Get people concentrating on the basic sailing first, which keeps them interested, and then look at capsizing later when everyone has built up their confidence. It's like learning to walk before running! If you start of in a boat that is 'less stable', wetter and much faster you stand far more chance of being put off from the word go.


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ribdriver
Most adults (probably) do not intend or want to spend their 'learning time' swimming, righting the boat or getting soaked. They want to learn how to make the thing go where they want to.

exactly :)
 
Buy it...+ pot of varnish = lots of fun for £350.00
http://sailingdinghies.apolloduck.co.uk/display.phtml?aid=266694
266694_1.jpg
 
I am 18 stone & 6 ft 6 ins tall
I had a laser & enjoyed it for 3 years racing our thursday night series
Easy to get upright cheap to buy real fun
I am now 65 yrs & own a phantom, a sqib several sailboards & a Hanse 311
Any phantom under £ 1750 will be rubbish
The class has some great characters & is really friendly hence why I bought one
Really hard to sail competetively. Exciting but real hard work in a blow. Weather ok for a laser would be too much for a phantom . Well me anyway. So out comes the sailboards or Squib
If you want a cheap beginners boat then laser every time. Get a bot of practice & buy a reasonable phantom & you will not be disappointed. But the better the boat the better the sailing
Better stil get a Hanse 311 & sail 1600 miles per year like I do
Still love the phantom !!!! The squib wins more races though
 
At the same height as me I have no idea how you manage to sail a Laser successfully! The only vaguely possible way I've found to hike a Laser is to jam your toes (just the big toe really) under the plastic strip on the leeward side of the cockpit. Lasts about two minutes before I give up!

Having sailed both, I would definitely choose a Solo over a Laser in the comfort stakes, but otherwise would do what you suggest and upgrade to a Phantom as soon as money allows.
 
as an ex phantom sailor and second row forward I agree its the boat for big people but its not a cruising dinghy.

I used to sail an enterprise single handed (and a wayfarer come to think of it) and its a much more stable platform for a beginner. Remember ultimate hiking performance is not so important if you're not racing.

That phantom below will pull apart on you and you will constantly be gluing it back up. Don't do it.

You'll get a much better and solid ent or equal for that.

Buy the Phantom when you get a bit more money and have learnt a bit and if you want to go racing. The're great boats but twitchy downwind when it blows and you want to gybe.
 
I've owned a laser, my father had a phantom (that I sailed), and I have sailed most dinghies. The laser is great fun, but wet to sailm and I think the OP is too big. The Phantom is a great boat and much more suitable for a big person, but it is really aimed at racing (I know you can cruise in it but it would be like putting a trailer on a Ferrari). Haven't sailed a solo, so can't comment on it's suitability for a big person, but they are nice boats.

If I was in the same situation I would be looking at something like an Enterprise. Nice cruising boat. Can sit in as well as on the side. Can take someone else out whilst learning, and I don't think handling the jib as well as the main will be that difficult. Might want to consider a Miracle. I don't know if they can be rigged for single-handing like the Mirror can.
 
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