Which sail manufacturer

[Haggsinnorway]

I am about to invest in a new set of sails and have received quotes from Doyle, Gran and Elvstrom, I also waiting for a quote from Kelly Hansen in the US. I have an older boat from 1984 (Player 311)which is used for cruising Norwegian waters.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has experience good/bad with these manufacturers as well as any advise.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Happy to recommend Penrose in Falmouth - price and quality.

 

[KellysEye]

Assuming you are buying Dacron sails get samples of the cloth they use and then use a magnifying glass and bright light behind the cloth. Glue is cheap, Dacron thread is expensive so cheap sails will have less thread and stretch more quickly. Also get a sample of Hood cloth it has the highest fibre content of any cloth. If you can't afford Hood sails (they do negotiate price as all do) then go with the highest fibre cloth. If you find they are all same keep looking.

 

[Sans Bateau]

Do try and buy locally, if you have any problems its good to have the sailmaker close at hand. If you buy overseas but then rely on your local guy to put things right, dont expect him to be there, he wont survive fixing other peoples cock ups.

 

[KellysEye]

>Do try and buy locally

Sorry but I wouldn't do that, the glue/fibre mix is much more important than buying locally.

>rely on your local guy to put things right, dont expect him to be there, he wont survive fixing other peoples cock ups.

I've never known a sailmaker to refuse work and they won't lose out because they charge the same per hour for repairs as sailmaking.

 

[Sans Bateau]

>Do try and buy locally

Sorry but I wouldn't do that, the glue/fibre mix is much more important than buying locally.

>rely on your local guy to put things right, dont expect him to be there, he wont survive fixing other peoples cock ups.

I've never known a sailmaker to refuse work and they won't lose out because they charge the same per hour for repairs as sailmaking.

So what you are implying is that a local sailmaker is not capable of using the right sailcloth (is that what you mean by fibre?) . And IMO glue is far less important than stitching.

Your second suggestion indicates that sails bought globally (internet?) are likely to have so many problems there will be enough to keep your local sailmaker in business.

 

[KellysEye]

>So what you are implying is that a local sailmaker is not capable of using the right sailcloth (is that what you mean by fibre?) . And IMO glue is far less important than stitching.

There is no such thing as the right sailcloth. As I said the amount of fibre determines how long before the sail strtches. More fibre gives a longer the time before stretching.
Dacron sails are made of glue and Dacron fibre. No glue no sail. Stitching also affects the life of the sail, sails designed for ocean sailing are triple stitched.

>Your second suggestion indicates that sails bought globally (internet?) are likely to have so many problems there will be enough to keep your local sailmaker in business.

I didn't mention anything about buying sails globally or the Internet. What I said is compare samples of the cloth to establish the ratio of glue to dacron fibre. Then decide how much you use the sail and thereby how long it will last. I went on to say that sailmakers will repair any sail for the same hourly rate as sail making. Given that many of the sails made in China are rubbish no doubt sail repairers are making good money alongside their sail making.
Bear in mind that cheap sails may not be worth repairing.

 

[Poignard]

Do try and buy locally, if you have any problems its good to have the sailmaker close at hand.

That's good advice. I lost a day's holiday because a distant sailmaker didn't read my instructions and fitted the wrong slides.

 

[wilkinsonsails]

Thanks Galadriel for your confidence in local sailmakers, we are still out there.
Kellys Eye, we try and use sailcloth that doesn't contain" glue.?"
We used to make sails without "glue "(double sided tape in most cases).
Its use now is not really structural ,it just for positioning and speed of sewing.

I think you meant to say resin fillers ,which are not a quality of good sailcloth.
Any cloth that's stiff and crunchy, when crumpled will break down as the resin fall out of it.One good test with your fabric sample, is to crush it in you fist like paper then check it against a spot light,pin pricks of light will show through the weave where the resin has fallen out.
We are not keen on altering sails that have been ordered from Asian markets,it should be down to the Purchaser to return it to the original manufacturer to get it fixed.
Cindy

 

[Averisera]

sailmakers

On my side of the pond, the local guys who actually talk with you and know what you do are still the best bet.

A shameless plug: We bought a sail from Doug Pope in Rockland, Maine recently and have gone back for a quote on a second sail. He sails a boat similar to ours. There's a point of interest. He has to see us around the waterfront. There's another point of interest. And, we race in some of the same regattas... I guess I have made the point.

BTW, best friend worked for Hood for 25 years. They make fabulous sails that are crazy expensive.

 

[Haggsinnorway]

Well as no one has answered my question regarding which manufacturer I guess no one has the experience of the sailmakers I asked about. So I have chosen Doyle, why? Because they are an international company, well respected in the industry, they have a loft here in Norway, and they asked the right questions regarding use, rig, and furling system etc.. They were also very competitive with regards to price.

 

[cawarra]

>Do try and buy locally

Sorry but I wouldn't do that, the glue/fibre mix is much more important than buying locally.

>rely on your local guy to put things right, dont expect him to be there, he wont survive fixing other peoples cock ups.

I've never known a sailmaker to refuse work and they won't lose out because they charge the same per hour for repairs as sailmaking.

Whilst I am not totally disagreeing with you Kellyseye, what you fail to point out is the type of fibre/ yarn used in the making of the cloth varies and its almost impossoble to tell under a microscope/ back light what yarn is used. Yes, you might find a cloth with very high fibre count under a microscope but you do not know if the yarn type is correct and what tenacity the yarns are???? No!
High quality sail cloth should be made from high tenacity, tightly woven yarn using the correct resin and heat set at the correct temperature to ensure the weave shrinks down correctly and making the weave even tighter so your "theory" of counting the fibres is flawed as there is an alot more to it than just counting the fibre content...!!!!

The same goes with nylon for spinnakers....is the cloth made from Nylon 6 or Nylon 6-6....there is a massive difference....but could the average person tell the difference under a 'scope? Answer to that is no..

Many of the "offshore" lofts still do use one of the big manufactures cloth (and hardware) and the quality of workmanship is very good (I have first hand experiance). However they will build (98% of the time) to the exact design that is supplied to them, or to a standard design which may not be what the boat is...that where you need to be careful.

 

[KellysEye]

>I think you meant to say resin fillers ,which are not a quality of good sailcloth.

That's nonsense, you are saying that (say) Hood sails are not good quality. All Dacron sails are made with resin (glue to me) and fibre which you will find on the majority of boats. The exceptions are the carbon varieties mainly on racing boats and traditional boats such as Gaffers which have canvas sails.

>One good test with your fabric sample, is to crush it in you fist like paper then check it against a spot light,pin pricks of light will show through the weave where the resin has fallen out

I can't believe anybody would be stupid enogh to crush a sail. Flaking/rolling a Dacron sail doesn't damage it, if it did nobody would buy them.