Which radar?

[ashtead]

Has anyone experience of new raymarine or other radars and can suggest one to buy based on current models please. Never had one on my boat before but looking to add one
Can you add another radar to interface to
Use might be occasional as have chartplotter and AIS
Any recent articles on topic ?

 

[pvb]

For easiest use, you should get a radar which will work with your chartplotter. The ability to superimpose the radar image on the chart makes it much more understandable. Unless you have outstanding eyesight, your plotter needs to have at least a 7" screen.

 

[RAI]

I chose a Standard Horizon CP390i plotter with a SITEX radar scanner and a NASA flux gate compass. They work well together with a Digital Yacht AIS transponder.

 

[ashtead]

Thanks for thoughts . I was looking at a raymarine e125 or 127 plotter but there seem to be number of different radars out there from raymarineraymarine and others . Any reason why colour is better for example?

 

[pvb]

Thanks for thoughts . I was looking at a raymarine e125 or 127 plotter but there seem to be number of different radars out there from raymarineraymarine and others . Any reason why colour is better for example?

Sorry, your original post suggested you already had a plotter. If not, the Raymarine e125/127 would be excellent. I'm not sure that colour radar necessarily justifies the extra cost, but that's a very subjective thing.

 

[Robin]

We chose a full NMEA2000 set up from Garmin, with a 4012 10 inch display, a 18" HD Radar scanner, an AIS 600 transceiver and a Garmin wind/direction with separate display head .We also have a Garmin triducer giving depth, water temp and boat waterspeed/distance. We used the existing raymarine 4000 wheel pilot which takes NMEA 0183 info' from the Garmin system an even repeats some on it's control head display.

We can overlay the radar plot onto the chart and AIS also. We have a Garmin heading sensor in the system too which seems to act fast enough to keep the radar overlay in the right place on the electronic charts as we move about as well as facilitating MARPA collision avoidance information on the display screen which in our case is in a moulded grp housing mounted on the coachroof to be visible to all in the cockpit.

 

[ashtead]

Thanks for comments and sorry for confusion . I think on basis I chose raymarine it's really down to added value of colour and while I have used furuno in the past on an open array years ago on another boat crossing med have never used colour so really looking to hear from someone who might have one already

 

[laika]

Couple of things you might consider if you don't have a plotter (pvb's first comment would obviously apply if you did). There are OpenCPN plugins for the Garmin and Navico radars based on reverse engineering of the data streams. Nothing similar for Raymaine. Also the big choice is conventional vs FMCW (aka "broadband"). if you opt for the later, it will probably lean you towards the navico brands.

 

[prv]

it's really down to added value of colour and while I have used furuno in the past on an open array years ago on another boat crossing med have never used colour

All that the colour does is add a little more nuance to the strength of a return - on the older C-series Raymarines a solid echo is yellow but a weaker one is blue; one target might show a mix of the two. So it lets you see that one target is fainter than another, even if they might be drawn at the same size (especially likely with older low-resolution screens).

Given that it's a property of the software and screen rather than the radar itself, and nobody's been making monochrome plotters for years, I would have assumed they were all "colour radars" nowadays. But maybe I'm wrong - I've never actually checked?

Pete

 

[Lucky Duck]

I had a C125 plotter with the basic 18"digital radar which worked perfectly satisfactorily. Raymarine also do a High Defintion version but I doubt the average yottie would get much benefit for the addition cost.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

It's electronics so whatever you buy will be "out of date" in a year or so but will work fine for as long as long as the manufacturer supports it. IF you're going to mount it aft on a pole I'd suggest "Broadband" from Navico (Simrad/Lowrance/B&G) as it will be radiating straight into the cockpit area unless it's a very tall pole. If you're putting it on the mast then that's not a problem so I'd would say whatever works with your current electronics if you already have a plotter. The radar performance of Raymarine, Simrad, Garmin aren't that far apart. Broadband's big advantage is really a much lower lower power draw and "instant on" ability along with the reduced radiation meaning no need for a safety zone round the scanner (which is irrelevant if the scanner is halfway up the mast, like most sail installations). THe range of Broadband is plenty good enough in 3G and 4G versions and the definition and close range ability on the latest Garmin and Raymarine os also more than adequate so it's pretty much a wash on that score. Scanner weight and windage are also fairly similar - later Raymarine and Garmin are perhaps slightly lower windage but it's marginal.

If don't have a plotter then you could consider one that works with a tablet or a laptop if you can keep the display in the dry and hook it up to a power supply. As another option Furuno do a "WiFi" radar scanner. This still requires a power lead up the mast to the scanner but they tend to be far more reliable than video or co-ax feeds and you can easily put a connection into a power lead without the risk of signal loss of course. The WiFi scanner feeds directly to an iPad (no idea if there's an Android option. If there is then there's a few water-resistant or at splashproof tablets that could be used. No tablets are that good in bright sunlight though - panbo is an excellent specialist martine electronic forum that is totally accessible to the non -geeky.
http://www.panbo.com/archives/2014/12/nobeltec_timezero_app_2015_furuno_drs4w_wifi_radar_overlay_more.html

 

[J Neeves]

Unless thongs have changed: Broadband radar aka FMCW uses less power and minimal power in standby. It also has instant 'on' from standby to active. You can thus leave it in standby without fear of it sucking all the power from your batteries and make a quick check every 15, 30 or 60 minutes etc. It is also vastly superior at close range, it can pick up your dinghy on its painter and find your bow, so it is great for close by identification of targets in poor visibility. But beyond about 20nm Broadband becomes a bit hit and miss. Broadband is not very good at identifying close low coastline, more than 10nm away. In terms of the speed at which a yacht commonly moves the longer range deficiency of Broadband is not an issue. For a MoBo (with fast moving targets) it might be more of an issue but Mobo's have better power levels.

With a clean sheet for a vessel with limited power and low speed, think sail, Broadband we thought better and it has the advantage of close range performance and instant 'on', from standby. We went this route when our Raymarine radar went down - and have an older Raymarine chart plotter at the chart table and a newer Navico chart plotter with the radar at the helm. Our further thinking was that in time, as the older Raymarine became irreparable we would replace failed units, wind, autopilot, with B&G.

We use the radar, in addition to checking on conventional targets, to identify thunder storm cell movement and determining the best route between cells.

Jonathan

edit, grumpy's and my posts crossed, but agree, look at panbo. close edit

 

[laika]

As another option Furuno do a "WiFi" radar scanner.

If you follow some of the links from the earlier panbo article on that, it hasn't been well received by some.
http://www.panbo.com/archives/2014/10/furuno_drs4w_1st_watch_wifi_radar_niche_or_breakthrough_product.html

Moreover when I went to my local Furuno dealer to talk about it he hinted that it might be being superseded soon (file under "rumour" of course). AFAIK (correct me if anyone knows different) that radar *only* works with the apps especially written for it. No plotters, not even maxsea. [EDIT: Ah: I note from *your* quoted panbo article (later than mine) that Nobletech have added support in their TimeZero iPad app]. And also AFAIK the app connects to an access point which the radar forms: it doesn't integrate with your existing wireless network. Sadly there doesn't seem to be much public documentation, Furuno's sales department ignored my mails asking them some technical questions, and my local Furuno dealer never got back to me with answers to the technical stuff he was going to put to Furuno. Amongst other things I was curious about which of a couple of obvious approaches they take to overcome the inherent problems with transmitting radar image data over wireless in the format most manufacturers use over ethernet (i.e. udp multicast). Sadly though, no reply.

 

[ashtead]

Thanks to all for thoughts and site . will do some more research but has helped me see what to look for on power and range which see key

 

[charles_reed]

All that the colour does is add a little more nuance to the strength of a return - on the older C-series Raymarines a solid echo is yellow but a weaker one is blue; one target might show a mix of the two. So it lets you see that one target is fainter than another, even if they might be drawn at the same size (especially likely with older low-resolution screens).

Given that it's a property of the software and screen rather than the radar itself, and nobody's been making monochrome plotters for years, I would have assumed they were all "colour radars" nowadays. But maybe I'm wrong - I've never actually checked?

Pete

I suspect, Pete, that the screen is a colour one with all modern chartplotters - so it boils down to the software stream from the radome.

I'm still happy with my CRT 10X Raymarine - I'll wait to replace it when commoditisation has set in and broadband is commonplace. I don't HAVE to sail in murky conditions so don't.
Different matter for commercial mariners.

Thanx GoG for the panbo lead - I already use OpenCPN on a Linux laptop in preference to an overpriced plotter with proprietary software and overpriced out-of-date charts.

 

[J Neeves]

Thanx GoG for the panbo lead - I already use OpenCPN on a Linux laptop in preference to an overpriced plotter with proprietary software and overpriced out-of-date charts.

I would not want to defend overpriced plotters or any other form of screen - but they are weather or waterproof - which adds an expense. We had our chart plotter at the chart table but with our upgrade now have the newer chart plotter at the helm - and it is so much easier, but only possible because its a 'chart plotter'. If iPads were waterproof Navico and Raymarine et al would go out of business overnight. iPads have the same water proof qualities as MDF - and this characteristic must buoy sales.

Jonathan

 

[prv]

This still requires a power lead up the mast to the scanner but they tend to be far more reliable than video or co-ax feeds

I don't think any of the main brands are still sending analogue video (or basic pulse signals) down the mast any more. In Raymarine's case that ended with the classic C-series about ten years ago. All the ones I've seen now use ethernet, which I'd expect to either work perfectly or not at all - no nagging worry that a dodgy plug is degrading the clarity of the picture.

Pete

 

[earlybird]

AFAIK, B/W "analogue" radar still exists in the form of the Furuno 1623 stand-alone set. Cactus list them at £1200, good if cost is a consideration.
I'm pleased with mine, no real problems in 8 or 9 years ownership. I don't think I really miss colour. Furuno quality seems generally high, and it's waterproof to a good level.

 

[Skylark]

About 18 months before selling my last boat, I upgraded the 10 year old Raymarine to Lowrance. This included 3rd generation Broad Band. A combination of a lazy so-called technician and an allegedly incomplete specification by the manufacture, it took more than 6 months to get it to do what it said on the tin. Even then, words/digits within the display would disappear from time to time.

My new boat has 4h generation by Simrad. Almost every piece of electrickery on the boat has been replaced under warranty and as we are about to start a new season I have every confidence that my problems are not over yet.

 

[J Neeves]

Our Simrad 3G broadband, NSS, depth sounder, and GoFree WiFi came in a series of cardboard boxes including a rather large amount of cabling, some of which we specified for length. We installed the lot (ourselves), including the scanner on the mast. The whole lot worked first time - and has been running faultlessly for over 2 years now. We swapped the 3G scanner for a 4G scanner on its release (to allow me to review it for articles in Oz and USA) and it also worked out of the box (but I had to give it back). The installation instructions are clear and simple (but the radar cable has the flexibility of a game fishing rod - if anyone measures up, be generous).

Most of the effort and time is in feeding cables. As long as your reading skills are upto a decent newspaper (or sailing magazine) you can follow the instructions.

Our only complaints were that, as has been mentioned, it has all dated too quickly (the Zeus unit, which I reviewed on another yacht, is so much better than the NSS for sail) and the plug for the depth sounder is overly large and needs, what seems to be, unnecessarily large conduit or holes in bulkheads (but its a standard Airmar unit and also used by Navico's competitors). The GoFree WiFi for iPad is great, negates any need for a repeater.

I'm less keen on the 4G Broadband - it uses more power for benefit, greater range, that does not seem necessary for a sailing yacht.

Jonathan