Which one Old Warrior 35 or newer Westerly 33 (Discus)?

B

boathead

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Hi there, firstly I hope that as I am new to this I am actually doing it right and someone will actually see my message! I am working on a very tight budget with an absolute max. of £30K to buy the yacht that will give comfortable living space for long term cruising/liveaboard for two along with genuine sea keeping ability. Now I like the Warrior 35 and it is cavernous inside and I would not doubt it's abilty, but they are 'tired' in my price range, in itself no real problem but I would look a the earlier Westerly 33 / Discus and they are often pretty near to get up and go status at around 25/28K. I have not viewed one and they appear roomy enough though less so than the Warrior. However I wonder, with its high freebourd and its fin keel (wouldn't feel at all happy with bilge keel) and generally lighter construction, is it really capable of dealing with whatever will be thrown at it?
 
Yes.No personal experience of the Warrior although a friend did a North Atlantic circuit in one a few years ago,but have no fears at all re. a well found Westerly33 or Discus.First class sea boats.
Bill
 
Both perfectly capable of doing what you want -- the discus is faster in lighter airs..Why would you not feel happy at all with bilge keels.. we had a westerly 33 bilge keel ketch in the family for decades and it was always closer winded than people seem to expect from bilge keelers, and was a great seaboat in all weathers... We never once wished she was a fin keel. In fact we were often glad she wasn't..

It gave us access to all sorts of places that would have been denied to us in a fin keeler and meant we could get up tidal rivers like to Morlaix earlier.
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I remember a Westerly Discus sinking on a drying mooring in the Menai Strait when one of the bilge keels punched through into the saloon. I share some reservations about bilge keels on larger boats, particularly if they dry regularly. The one mentioned above dried on every tide.
 
Someone on the Forum down in Devon recently bought Warrior 35 for a RTW trip. Devon Lady ?

Lots of positive info in a PBO comparison test about a year ago.
 
we can all think of horror stories for any sort of boat-- Thats probably a rarity--How often do we hear stories of fin keelers losing their keels on this forum and in the yachting press?? I should think it is far more common that fin keelers are lost during groundings on sand banks than a bilge keeler get's sunk by her own keel on a mooring.
I would think any large boat -- regardless of keel configuration isn't being kindly treated to be expected to dry out twice a day (and if it is-- should receive thorough inspection on a regular basis) --- and I would have thought there is the potential for a fair bit of pounding at times in the Menai Strait..
One might just as well say I have known occasions when fin keeled boats have toppled over while ashore for storage while the bilge keelers in the yard didn't fall over.
 
As a general observation, not being first hand familiar with either boat, do not discount the cost of keeping a 'tired' boat in seaworthy condition.... personally, i'd go for the slightly smaller, but much better nick Westerly every time... you could end up quite easily having another £10K to spend on a tired boat by the time you've replaced the rigging, engine and sails....
 
not taking it personally... in fact- as we all know there is no perfect boat-- only some boats are better for some types of sailing than others - I think we can have reservations about some aspect of many different types of boat-- I was just puzzled as to why the original poster should have such a strong bias against bilge keels as to discount them altogether..

The deep fin version of my boat (catalina38) is notorious for keel problems caused by boatyards not blocking them correctly when on the hard.. I was very fortunate in finding a boat with a manufacturer modified keel that has never suffered from the problem..
I also don't like having such a large headsail compared with the main for long short hand passage making.. but for the majority of the sailing I do it is almost an ideal boat.. I was just wondering why - given the sort of sailing I would imagine the OP was planning he is so strongly against a bilge keel boat if a good one came on the market for a good price when they do have advantages for some cruising situations.
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I am the original poster and I want to briefly explain my reservations regarding bilge keelers. It is largely based in my persoanl inexperience of them and the 'horror stories' and folklore. I currently potter on the Atlantic coast of Scotland in a little vivacity 20 bilge keeler. I never worry about the boat but am aware it is tender, watch the weather and sea state. Prior to this 'fun' boat Had an old Buchanan long keeled sloop, very steady. I feel that I would like to cruise over an extended period, over the Atlantic then the Pacific, I would feel more confident with a heavy deep keel, like the Warrior, and would feel vulnerable in a serious blow with big sea in a bilge keeler, i feel perhaps wrongly that she would be either on her beam ends or unable to track well with following seas.

This may be nonsence and really am open to the debate as I accept my limited knowledge, all my sailing (40 yrs) has been Coastal only.
 
A much more important distiction between bilge and centre keels is the rudder, On a long range cruiser it must be big, heavy, deep and compleatly bomb proof even after grounding (ie bumping the bottem not driving onto a reef) To me this indicats either a long keel or a full length and deep section skeg. Most bilge keelers have a compleatly unsuported blade.

'Tired' depends on what you plan to do and expect to spend on preperation. If you need a boat 'ready to go' you are probably getting gear thats 1/2 warn out, was chosen by somebody else for a different purpose and is often to light for offshore. If you can afford the time and cost of a comprehensive refit a good hull with dead gear you expect to replace can be worth looking at, particularly for a long trip. Could even include a salvage recovery
 
Your second point about 'tired' is good. In some respects this is why I favour the Warrior (although I also feel they are better layed out inside which is important to my partner particularly). I can get a Warrior cheaper than a Westerly and so have the money spare to fit out and modernise or rig with heavier shrouds, and so forth. The Westerly would leave me less room for this, and if I try to be sensible then this is possibly the crucial point in making my decision....... wish there were a few more Warriors to chose from..... maybe too fussy and particular. Thanks for the helpful pointers.
 
Bajansailor beat me to the sail-trek link /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Not sure I agree about one in your price range necessarily being "tired" - sure there may be some which need new rig, sails etc, but there also must be some which had that done recently (like mine /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ). Of more concern may be if the hull hasn't had the strengthening work done in the forward topsides - stress-cracking due to slamming often occurred because of lack of stiffness.

I haven't sailed a W33, but I berthed alongside one for a couple of years, and I looked at several ketch-rigged examples before I bought a Warrior. I liked the layout, with the walk-through to the aft cabin in the Discus, but the W33 with the separate aft cabin was horrible IMO. And the steering position - jammed between the mizzen and the aft cabin - would have driven me nuts /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Huge cockpit locker space though.

I would think that pretty much any boat of that age/size/price would require a fair amount of work. 25-30 yr old electrics, engine, tanks, pipe-work etc....probably time to renew or refurbish?

If you want any more info about Warrior 35 - pros and cons/mods/systems etc - then feel free to pm me.

...and my engine is back in yaaay /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
A mate bought a Discus last year. It had a high , is it called, bridge-deck to allow the walkthrough to the rear cabin. I thought the steering position was very exposed and would not consider it for your intended use.

They were asking around £35K and I think he got it for £27. It was full of up to date gear, including a generator, 2 folding bikes, inflateable, outboard and life raft. So much gear that if you got it out of a locker it was impossible to get it all back in.

I think it is a buyers market so you should get a good deal whatever you buy.
 
Don't get too hung up with the actual design. Either boat has a good reputation as a cruiser/live aboard. Just different approaches to a common problem. You just need to be aware than you are looking at 30 plus year old boats which by their very nature will have had a hard life and probably many owners, so the viability of an individual boat will be very variable. The purchase price is only the entry fee to an almost fixed cost of keeping the boat in commission and the potential for spending more money on remedial work and upgrading is equally infinite.

Also consider that a new boat of this size/type (if it were available) would be £100k+ so a £30k boat is bound to be be "tired" - that is why it is only £30k! in much the same way as a 5 year old Mondeo is only 30% of the cost of a new one. The only consolation is that the physical fabric of a boat does not deteriorate to the point at which it is unusable in the same way as a car. However all the key costs of keeping it operating vary very little, irrespective of the capital value. For example, mooring costs, antifoul, new electronics, sails etc are priced according to size, not value of the boat!

On this basis it is your ability to fund on going fixed costs that is more important than the capital cost of purchase!
 
Your points are well understood. The ongoing costs of the boat are not really the issue, I am aware and prepared for these by having both money set aside from the purchase budget and the ability to work from the boat/on the move to earn a small income to cover costs. These ongoing costs are a fact of life whether on a boat on in a house, however your comments make me turn still in favour of the Warrior because I can purchase one in sound condition for less than a Westerly and so have more money to fit out/renew comprehensively. Thanks for the comments.
 
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