Which new instruments

[Ceirwan]

I just fitted the B&G double display for £1000 ish package with the older Triton 1 displays.

So far they are excellent and perfectly easy to use and perfectly view able, I would recommend them.

Regarding calibration of the sensor, at least with the B&G you have two options.
- Calibration via the display itself, i.e. the display does the depth offset itself.
- Or, going into the network option its possible to actually calibrate the sensor directly, so in this case I have my depth offset set internally in the Airmar transducer. The option is also there to calibrate my wind sensor angle, but wasn't required as I managed to install it straight.

I am waiting for my Vulcan 7 to arrive, which will get installed in the cockpit.

 

[Moonbeam]

I bought the Garmin Wind/depth/speed combo pack with an extra GNX20 so had 2 x GNX20 and 1 x GMI20

I have the old GMI-10 display and GWS-10 wind sensor at the mast.

Can you tell me if the new G Wind sensor you have gives you a barometer reading/history graph? Mine does (which I think is an excellent built in feature) but looking at the G Wind info, there is no mention of a barometer built in.

 

[roblpm]

Your profile doesn't say where you are.. but if you're near the Solent you'd be welcome to see my setup and compare (and try recalibrating)..
I have a Raymarine i70 display and a B&G Triton T41 display together with a couple of Raymarine i60 Analogue wind displays above the companionway. I also have a Garmin GMI10 that is has been relegated to the chart table and a Simrad IS20 analogue wind in the spares cupboard. The GMI10 is a smaller older display and not as good as the new but I don't have a GMI20 to compare it with.

I do find the i60 analogue wind so much easier and natural to read than the digital displays. The i70 digital wind display I'd say is fractionally easier to read than the B&G but the B&G shows the true and apparent wind and other information nicely.

I calibrated the depth on my DST800 transducer using a separate Zeus chart plotter and it seems to have stored the offset because I did not need to set up separately on the other instruments.

I seem to think that the wind calibration was the same (B&G 508 at the masthead) but I can't remember and I've not connected the laptop recently. A good test would be if I connect the laptop up next week and see if the wind angle alters on the laptop and on the Zeus plotters whilst calibrating on just one instrument (e.g. using calibration mode on the Raymarine i60 for example).

Another good feature of the Raymarine small displays is that each display can be powered off individually. Some other displays cannot and are therefore powered on all the time the NMEA2000 bus is powered up.

Yes excellent. Would be interesting to put an offset in the zeus for the 508 and see whether it shows on the laptop.

Why the manufacturers cant just state if the sensors can store calibrations is beyond me.

However i have a new theory about how this could work as well. I think you can have more than one device on an nmea2000 network transmitting the same pgns. Ie 2 gpss. Then in whatever you are reading the pgns in you should be able to select which source you want. (in my case on my shipmodul multiplexor). So I wonder if the displays retransmit corrected pgns. Does anyone know? The Raymarine guy on the phone this morning couldn't really explain it but maybe this is what they do?

 

[roblpm]

I just fitted the B&G double display for £1000 ish package with the older Triton 1 displays.

So far they are excellent and perfectly easy to use and perfectly view able, I would recommend them.

Regarding calibration of the sensor, at least with the B&G you have two options.
- Calibration via the display itself, i.e. the display does the depth offset itself.
- Or, going into the network option its possible to actually calibrate the sensor directly, so in this case I have my depth offset set internally in the Airmar transducer. The option is also there to calibrate my wind sensor angle, but wasn't required as I managed to install it straight.

I am waiting for my Vulcan 7 to arrive, which will get installed in the cockpit.

Very interesting. In which case the 508 can store an offset? Would be great to ask b&g but doesn't seem to be possible!!!!!

 

[Norman_E]

I just fitted the B&G double display for £1000 ish package with the older Triton 1 displays.

So far they are excellent and perfectly easy to use and perfectly view able, I would recommend them.

Regarding calibration of the sensor, at least with the B&G you have two options.
- Calibration via the display itself, i.e. the display does the depth offset itself.
- Or, going into the network option its possible to actually calibrate the sensor directly, so in this case I have my depth offset set internally in the Airmar transducer. The option is also there to calibrate my wind sensor angle, but wasn't required as I managed to install it straight.

I am waiting for my Vulcan 7 to arrive, which will get installed in the cockpit.

Good choice IMHO, I have three Triton 1 displays on board plus a Vulcan 7 touch chartplotter, which gave me the largest screen in the smallest physical package to fit at the helm. Overall I am very pleased with the setup. In particular the B&G Triton wind display is better than any other that I have seen.

 

[lpdsn]

I'm currently in the process of fitting a gWind anemometer (and integrating to a Raymarine autopilot). I like the way you can customise the pages of the GMI20. It's also about the cheapest N2K display around.

In terms of integrating Stowe and N2K I've had partial success with the ShipModul Miniplexer. I was going to suggest some new functionality for the ShipModul but I'm not sure how much it is a minority requirement just for me.

 

[roblpm]

I'm currently in the process of fitting a gWind anemometer (and integrating to a Raymarine autopilot). I like the way you can customise the pages of the GMI20. It's also about the cheapest N2K display around.

In terms of integrating Stowe and N2K I've had partial success with the ShipModul Miniplexer. I was going to suggest some new functionality for the ShipModul but I'm not sure how much it is a minority requirement just for me.

Can you try setting an offset on the gwind from the gmi20 and seeing if you can see that on the wifi broadcast from the shipmodul?

 

[lpdsn]

Can you try setting an offset on the gwind from the gmi20 and seeing if you can see that on the wifi broadcast from the shipmodul?

I'm hoping to get the gWind fitted in a couple of weeks. There was a bit of engineering involved as the gWind footprint on the masthead is bigger than that of the old Stowe. So I can definitely give it a go then. How I believe it works is that the calibration, incl offset is stored in the GND10 so it's the 130306PGN that appears on the N2K bus. I'm hoping to get a VWR sentence out of the ShipModul that I can feed to OpenCPN and a Stowe wind display. I'm fully confident about OpenCPN and maybe 75% confident about the Stowe (Stowe sentences for m/s & kph are empty but the ones produced by the ShipModul will have these populated).

The 130306 PGN should work with the Raymarine autopilot as they both use standard PGNs.

I'll let you know how it goes.

PS 130306 doesn't carry the offset. Info from NMEA website:

130306 Wind Data
Field # Field Description
Direction and speed of Wind. True wind can be referenced to the vessel or to the ground. The Apparent Wind is what is felt
standing on the (moving) ship, I.e., the wind measured by the typical mast head instruments. The boat referenced true wind is
given by the vector sum of Apparent wind and vessel's heading and speed though the water. The ground referenced true wind is
given by the vector sum of Apparent wind and vessel's heading and speed over ground.
1 Sequence ID
2 Wind Speed
3 Wind Direction
4 Wind Reference
5 Reserve

 

[Ceirwan]

Very interesting. In which case the 508 can store an offset? Would be great to ask b&g but doesn't seem to be possible!!!!!

I believe that to to be the case. The B&G manuals are notoriously bad, but the interface is very self explanatory. The advantage of setting offsets into the transducer are of course that they broadcast the correct data, it doesn't need to be corrected afterwords.
I'm 95% sure that the wind sensor would let me calibrate the angle that its offset. I can check when I'm next onboard. (probably tomorrow)

Norman.
So far very happy apart from having to wait over a month for my chart plotter, there seems to be a national shortage.
I have a triton display on the port side of my cockpit, and the vulcan will fit with the flush mount kit onto the starboard side, so I'll have a display on the side I'm on.
The second triton display will go at the chart table.

I have a 4 way NMEA2k splitter at the chart table, going off to the various bits.
The VHF gets its position via an ActiSense 0183 <--> N2K converter, this also supplies the autohelm with wind data and receives AIS data on 0183 which is then broadcast as N2k for the plotter.

The ZG100 compass / GPS / inclinometer, I actually mounted in the bottom of the V-berth next to the depth transducer, the theory being I only needed it for the heading, so GPS reception was unimportant. However amazingly it gets a great GPS signal as well.

 

[roblpm]

Thanks for the last two posts.

So i suppose my questions going forwards are that really i want a system that keeps the calibrations when the displays are switched off. Ie if the nmea 2000 network is powered up then the sensors can talk to my shipmodul with calibrated data. And then how long do the sensors retain the calibrations? Is it non volatile memory?

Raymarine and B&G have failed me today on the information front......

 

[lpdsn]

Thanks for the last two posts.

So i suppose my questions going forwards are that really i want a system that keeps the calibrations when the displays are switched off. Ie if the nmea 2000 network is powered up then the sensors can talk to my shipmodul with calibrated data. And then how long do the sensors retain the calibrations? Is it non volatile memory?

Raymarine and B&G have failed me today on the information front......

I'd be surprised if it wasn't permanent barring faults and deliberate resets. Every other piece of instrumentation I have on board, from 25 years old Stowe Dataline to 3-year old Raymarine (i70, p70, EV-1) keeps its calibration when powered off. I've heavily customised the GMI20 screens and they also survive the power off.

 

[roblpm]

I'd be surprised if it wasn't permanent barring faults and deliberate resets. Every other piece of instrumentation I have on board, from 25 years old Stowe Dataline to 3-year old Raymarine (i70, p70, EV-1) keeps its calibration when powered off. I've heavily customised the GMI20 screens and they also survive the power off.

You are brave keeping on with the stowe dataline. I have finally had enough.....

 

[neilf39]

I have the old GMI-10 display and GWS-10 wind sensor at the mast.

Can you tell me if the new G Wind sensor you have gives you a barometer reading/history graph? Mine does (which I think is an excellent built in feature) but looking at the G Wind info, there is no mention of a barometer built in.

No there is no barometer in the wind sensor unfortunately.

 

[lpdsn]

You are brave keeping on with the stowe dataline. I have finally had enough.....

I've no choice. Nothing else will fit. Even the i70 I've fitted protrudes into a cabin and I'll have to devise some smart way to cover it.

 

[roblpm]

Ok so I am not much the wiser except it seems the dst800 is fine.

I am not convinced that the ITC5 raymarine box stores calibrations. But I can't find out!

So looks like native nmea2000 sensors should store calibrations.

 

[lpdsn]

For me the DST800 with N2K as new paddle wheel log/depth sensor is a no-brainer. The Garmin version is cheaper than the raymarine version so I will probably go that way. Both made by Airmar so I doubt the price increase gives anything extra. No doubt Airmar have specified the configuration commands too.

It doesn't seem plausible that the ITC5 doesn't hold the calibration. I'm sure there'd be a lot of fuss made if people had to reset the depth to keel offset, say, everytime they powered up. Maybe try a post specifically about the ITC5.

 

[roblpm]

For me the DST800 with N2K as new paddle wheel log/depth sensor is a no-brainer. The Garmin version is cheaper than the raymarine version so I will probably go that way. Both made by Airmar so I doubt the price increase gives anything extra. No doubt Airmar have specified the configuration commands too.

It doesn't seem plausible that the ITC5 doesn't hold the calibration. I'm sure there'd be a lot of fuss made if people had to reset the depth to keel offset, say, everytime they powered up. Maybe try a post specifically about the ITC5.

Yes. Dst800 is easy. Wind less so.

The question is not losing the settings. Its where the settings are stored. Itc5 or i70s. Then again if the itc5 is sending out the nmea2000 i don't think that the displays have the capability to retransmit corrected values. Actually there is a good question. Does the itc5 send out nmea2000? Or does it come from the i70s?!

 

[lpdsn]

Yes. Dst800 is easy. Wind less so.

The question is not losing the settings. Its where the settings are stored. Itc5 or i70s. Then again if the itc5 is sending out the nmea2000 i don't think that the displays have the capability to retransmit corrected values. Actually there is a good question. Does the itc5 send out nmea2000? Or does it come from the i70s?!

N2K PGNs are much more tightly defined that NMEA0183 sentences. I can't see that the iTC5 could work properly if it didn't have the settings stored locally. The i70 is just the means of setting that calibration. For example, if you have the autopilot, PGN 130306 (wind) is taken by the EV-1 and p70. It wouldn't be practical to send it via the i70 for calibration.

Of course, I can fully understand why you want Raymarine to confirm that. My experience (sailing and in the day job) is that not all support engineers are equal. Maybe worth letting your support call fade away and opening a new one in a few weeks to get a new engineer (worked for me with an apparent EV-1 issue).

 

[roblpm]

N2K PGNs are much more tightly defined that NMEA0183 sentences. I can't see that the iTC5 could work properly if it didn't have the settings stored locally. The i70 is just the means of setting that calibration. For example, if you have the autopilot, PGN 130306 (wind) is taken by the EV-1 and p70. It wouldn't be practical to send it via the i70 for calibration.

Of course, I can fully understand why you want Raymarine to confirm that. My experience (sailing and in the day job) is that not all support engineers are equal. Maybe worth letting your support call fade away and opening a new one in a few weeks to get a new engineer (worked for me with an apparent EV-1 issue).

Sure. Im beginning to get it. I70s sets calibration in itc5. Itc5 generates pgn130306 on the network.

Its just really irritating that they can't tell me that and what happens when the system is turned off and on again. Does the itc5 retain the settings? Does the i70s set them up again on boot up?

It probably doesn't matter but now I have started I need to know. And normally when you are buying something you can ask how it works?!

 

[lpdsn]

It probably doesn't matter but now I have started I need to know. And normally when you are buying something you can ask how it works?!

Try another support call with Raymarine and hopefully you'll get an engineer who knows it better.