CodStewart
Well-Known Member
Ha ha! But I have to learn to sail first!
[Pinch me. This can't be happening]
[Pinch me. This can't be happening]
Which NAVTEX? Furuno?
- Thread starter CodStewart
- Start date
roger
Well-Known Member
PBO did a group test not long ago and found the Furuno that they tested received more stations than either the NASA or the ICS
Birdseye
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Great thread, guys. I think I'll get the SSB first and go from there. Most likely will go the way of the free download stuff. I intend to be based mostly in South East Asia eventually.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you are going to be really out in the sticks, then SSB will be useful. A sat phone would be more so.
SSB radio is high frequency radio and suffers more than navtex (which is low frequency) with skip problems. I have both on board and the way I would rate them is:
1/ navtex is useful because its on all the time and doesnt miss the 0555 forecast because its been out on the beer
2/ navtex gives you additional safety warnings. it is a gmdss system and is global even if there are areas where reception is poor.
3/ navtex is cheap - less than £200 all in
4/ SSB weather fax data requires a modem and a computer as well - so its expensive
5/ ssb coverage includes miod oicean which navtex doesnt
6/ an ssb transceiver can be used for e mail and chat as well - navtex cant.
no doubt other people will have pros/ cons to add.
Great thread, guys. I think I'll get the SSB first and go from there. Most likely will go the way of the free download stuff. I intend to be based mostly in South East Asia eventually.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you are going to be really out in the sticks, then SSB will be useful. A sat phone would be more so.
SSB radio is high frequency radio and suffers more than navtex (which is low frequency) with skip problems. I have both on board and the way I would rate them is:
1/ navtex is useful because its on all the time and doesnt miss the 0555 forecast because its been out on the beer
2/ navtex gives you additional safety warnings. it is a gmdss system and is global even if there are areas where reception is poor.
3/ navtex is cheap - less than £200 all in
4/ SSB weather fax data requires a modem and a computer as well - so its expensive
5/ ssb coverage includes miod oicean which navtex doesnt
6/ an ssb transceiver can be used for e mail and chat as well - navtex cant.
no doubt other people will have pros/ cons to add.
BruceDanforth
Well-Known Member
The Nasa Navtex is good. Also worth considering is having a laptop connected to an SSB and getting weatherfax. This is free but can be time consuming to download. If you are in the middle of the ocean you will welcome it as a distraction between catching the next fish, making a loaf and fixing the watermaker (again).
CodStewart
Well-Known Member
So, to be clear - if I have an SSB and a computer but no online connection/sat phone[I am seriously budget], I can still get a weatherfax, albeit slowly? The SSB provides the 'connection" to the waves to get such information?
CodStewart
Well-Known Member
By the way, in my search for NAVTEX units, I was coming up with prices hovering around the $1000 mark. Where was I going wrong? What equipment do I need to buy to be able to receive information with a NAVTEX. On the boat right now, I merely have two VHF radios.
BruceDanforth
Well-Known Member
That's right. You get a wire from the line out of the SSB into the soundcard on the laptop and use something like Seatty which is free.
Gypsy
Well-Known Member
Take a look at this site www.navcen.uscg.gov/marcomms/gmdss/NAVTEX.htm, it shows the US Navtex stations/coverage and a world map with "the rest". I found Navtex very useful in the Med but it does depend upon the weather departements in each country, some better or more detailed than others. There is no coverage in open ocean as the signal is limited power AM and it is really aimed at coastal/near coastal forecasts.
Your SSB path is probably better but requires more action and learning on your part to get the information. Navtex just ticks away in the background and you can look at the previously received messages from the memory. On the other hand you only get 2 forecasts a day (sometimes 1) and you can't just "request" information because each country has specific times to transmit.
Like another poster says, in his own way, becareful of too much information it can be very confusing. If you are going to cruise around the Gulf for a while I'd wait until you have a few other things sorted before you buy a Navtex.
Ray
Your SSB path is probably better but requires more action and learning on your part to get the information. Navtex just ticks away in the background and you can look at the previously received messages from the memory. On the other hand you only get 2 forecasts a day (sometimes 1) and you can't just "request" information because each country has specific times to transmit.
Like another poster says, in his own way, becareful of too much information it can be very confusing. If you are going to cruise around the Gulf for a while I'd wait until you have a few other things sorted before you buy a Navtex.
Ray
whipper_snapper
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
SSB radio is high frequency radio and suffers more than navtex (which is low frequency) with skip problems.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would not call skip a problem for SSB! It is how it works! The consequence is that reception varies with time of day and distance in a non-obvious way. But skip is how long range is achieved.
[ QUOTE ]
4/ SSB weather fax data requires a modem and a computer as well - so its expensive
[/ QUOTE ]
It does not require a modem. Most people use software that gets data via the computer's sound card. Most cruisers have a computer on board anyway, so this is not really an extra cost.
And to further muddy the issues, most modern SSB receivers are also general coverage receivers, so your SSB-PC setup will allow you to receive navtex as well as weather fax. Albeit with much less convenience and increased power consumption compared to a standalone dedicated device.
SSB radio is high frequency radio and suffers more than navtex (which is low frequency) with skip problems.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would not call skip a problem for SSB! It is how it works! The consequence is that reception varies with time of day and distance in a non-obvious way. But skip is how long range is achieved.
[ QUOTE ]
4/ SSB weather fax data requires a modem and a computer as well - so its expensive
[/ QUOTE ]
It does not require a modem. Most people use software that gets data via the computer's sound card. Most cruisers have a computer on board anyway, so this is not really an extra cost.
And to further muddy the issues, most modern SSB receivers are also general coverage receivers, so your SSB-PC setup will allow you to receive navtex as well as weather fax. Albeit with much less convenience and increased power consumption compared to a standalone dedicated device.
Birdseye
Well-Known Member
OK maybe I should have worded it more clearly - I was trying to explain to the poster in simple terms that patches of bad reception occurred on HF SSB just as much if not more than they do on the frequencies used by navtex.
Whats worse in the case of SSB is having to hunt up and down the frequency bands to find the transmission that you can receive that day and that time and in that weather. OK if you are a ham radio operator as I am, but not something that most yotties would be familiar with.
You are right that most people use a software modem, as indeed they do with dial up interenet connections. But it is till something you need, and something extra that you have to operate.Add all these things together, and SSB becomes way more complicated to operate than navtex, as well as way more expensive.
There is no practical way that SSB can be used to replace the non weather functions of navtex in my view - most boats dont have the power syupplies to leave the computer on, and reception would not be automatic like navtex receivers
The answer is to have both or better still a sat phone and modem.
Whats worse in the case of SSB is having to hunt up and down the frequency bands to find the transmission that you can receive that day and that time and in that weather. OK if you are a ham radio operator as I am, but not something that most yotties would be familiar with.
You are right that most people use a software modem, as indeed they do with dial up interenet connections. But it is till something you need, and something extra that you have to operate.Add all these things together, and SSB becomes way more complicated to operate than navtex, as well as way more expensive.
There is no practical way that SSB can be used to replace the non weather functions of navtex in my view - most boats dont have the power syupplies to leave the computer on, and reception would not be automatic like navtex receivers
The answer is to have both or better still a sat phone and modem.
alan
Well-Known Member
Apart from all the advice that you have received with respect to GRIBs e.t.c.; the most user friendly Navtex is Furuno, the software of the NASA is "micky-mouse" and not user friendly(I had one for 4 years), the ICS is too expensive. The Furuno can be operated without opening the instruction manual it is menu driven and logical.
Alan.
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Alan.
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CodStewart
Well-Known Member
Thanks to everybody. I have learned alot from the thread.
RBJ
Active Member
Another vote for the Furuno NX-300.
I bought and fitted one last April after checking on this forum.
Excellent piece of kit. Immense range. I received Canadian coastguard broadcasts while in Germany. I regularly get broadcasts from well beyond 300 miles. And, very importantly, I don't have to wake up early for the weather forecast.
There is no rail bracket supplied for the Antenna so you need to make sure you get one from somewhere.
At the same time I installed a NASA SSB receiver with booster aerial. I'm somewhat underwhelmed with this. It works and I have successfully connected to the computer and downloaded weather maps but only to see if I could do it. On my boat there are also issues with interference from other equipment, particularly nav instruments. This is not an issue with my Navtex.
I bought and fitted one last April after checking on this forum.
Excellent piece of kit. Immense range. I received Canadian coastguard broadcasts while in Germany. I regularly get broadcasts from well beyond 300 miles. And, very importantly, I don't have to wake up early for the weather forecast.
There is no rail bracket supplied for the Antenna so you need to make sure you get one from somewhere.
At the same time I installed a NASA SSB receiver with booster aerial. I'm somewhat underwhelmed with this. It works and I have successfully connected to the computer and downloaded weather maps but only to see if I could do it. On my boat there are also issues with interference from other equipment, particularly nav instruments. This is not an issue with my Navtex.
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
NASa software may be 'micky mouse' although I'm not sure that that is a bad thing. I have had a succession of NASAs, starting with the old LCD screen, then a Pro and now a Clipper. All have worked very well, between the Baltic and Italy, provided the antenna remained empty of water. This seems to be the Achilles heel of the equipment, still not really solved in the current enclosed version. Since resealing mine I have had no ingress or condensation and no problems.
On the Weatherfax issue, the SSB only needs to be a receiver. NASA make one but there seem to be various problems with getting it to talk to the computer. I used an Icom PCR 1000 for a while but this is an expensive solution. All-wave receivers are now available quite cheaply and well up to the job.
On the Weatherfax issue, the SSB only needs to be a receiver. NASA make one but there seem to be various problems with getting it to talk to the computer. I used an Icom PCR 1000 for a while but this is an expensive solution. All-wave receivers are now available quite cheaply and well up to the job.
doris
Well-Known Member
ICS antenna
I had an ICS 6 on my last boat...great functionality but most times in the Biscay no data. Mates with Furunos had regular data. For the new boat when talking to various techies I hear that the antenna on the ICS can vary emormously. 2 boats side by side, one receives and the other doesn't. Got a Furuno and no probs...excellent in fact. Only downside is that it is not auto dual channel. You have to actually look in the book and choose the correct channel. Tricky stuff this reading of almanacs!!
I had an ICS 6 on my last boat...great functionality but most times in the Biscay no data. Mates with Furunos had regular data. For the new boat when talking to various techies I hear that the antenna on the ICS can vary emormously. 2 boats side by side, one receives and the other doesn't. Got a Furuno and no probs...excellent in fact. Only downside is that it is not auto dual channel. You have to actually look in the book and choose the correct channel. Tricky stuff this reading of almanacs!!
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Re: ICS antenna
>provided the antenna remained empty of water.<
Mine's receiving well from a position inside the boat. Home waters only, mind.
>provided the antenna remained empty of water.<
Mine's receiving well from a position inside the boat. Home waters only, mind.
Duffer
Well-Known Member
Re: ICS antenna
My Nasa navtex receiver has been a waste of time and money due to poor reception - not sure if this is down to the unit or local reception in SW UK...
My Nasa navtex receiver has been a waste of time and money due to poor reception - not sure if this is down to the unit or local reception in SW UK...
velo
Well-Known Member
tried cling film ,or looking at the sky +bbc,if your in mid ocean,where are you going to go,if its rough you know how to cope ,navtex is handy for offshore,time to run for cover,get one off ebay 60£,or cheap sony radio for bbc.
jbweston
Well-Known Member
Re: NASA navtex reception
Duffer, I have a NASA Clipper. To start with I got patchy reception, now it's excellent. Problem was the aerial connection. It might be worth some experimenting, specially if other boats near you get reasonable reception.
I experimented to find what the problem was, siting the aerial in various different places. The reception varied with how close I was to the transmitting station. Then I tried earthing the aerial to a keel bolt and it was good, but it shouldn't have needed an earth. Then Bingo! I discovered that I had made a bad joint in the aerial cable where I'd split it and joined it with a soldered coaxial connector. Just one strand of the wire shorting across. I resoldered the joint and got excellent reception. No earth now, and standard aerial on the stern. That was two seasons ago, and it is still excellent.
From Solent and N France I get Niton (obviously) and Ostend if I want it, and and in Brittany I get Corsen and when I don't tell the set to filter out other stations I get them from all over Europe and at night as far away as N Africa - which is not useful, just fun.
To my mind as a frequently solo sailor, Navtex is the single most useful bit of electronic kit after the the echo sounder and gps - always the latest weather forecast waiting for me on screen, without my remembering to listen to the radio at broadcast times.
I can't remember how the reception was when I have been down in the W Country, but I was down in Dartmouth/Plymouth and Falmouth in 2007 and don't recall problems.
Bearing in mind many people say the Furuno is a better set than my NASA, I really can't complain.
Hope you can get better luck with yours.
Duffer, I have a NASA Clipper. To start with I got patchy reception, now it's excellent. Problem was the aerial connection. It might be worth some experimenting, specially if other boats near you get reasonable reception.
I experimented to find what the problem was, siting the aerial in various different places. The reception varied with how close I was to the transmitting station. Then I tried earthing the aerial to a keel bolt and it was good, but it shouldn't have needed an earth. Then Bingo! I discovered that I had made a bad joint in the aerial cable where I'd split it and joined it with a soldered coaxial connector. Just one strand of the wire shorting across. I resoldered the joint and got excellent reception. No earth now, and standard aerial on the stern. That was two seasons ago, and it is still excellent.
From Solent and N France I get Niton (obviously) and Ostend if I want it, and and in Brittany I get Corsen and when I don't tell the set to filter out other stations I get them from all over Europe and at night as far away as N Africa - which is not useful, just fun.
To my mind as a frequently solo sailor, Navtex is the single most useful bit of electronic kit after the the echo sounder and gps - always the latest weather forecast waiting for me on screen, without my remembering to listen to the radio at broadcast times.
I can't remember how the reception was when I have been down in the W Country, but I was down in Dartmouth/Plymouth and Falmouth in 2007 and don't recall problems.
Bearing in mind many people say the Furuno is a better set than my NASA, I really can't complain.
Hope you can get better luck with yours.
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