Robih
Well-known member
I'd be grateful for a positive ID of this yacht - which particular J class is she? Unfortunately there is no indication on the photo - I've had it out of the frame to look. So, in grateful anticipation:
Which J class is this?
- Thread starter Robih
- Start date
Daydream believer
Well-known member
well it is not a J 24 that is for sure:encouragement:
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
Well... she’s white.... with a big bowsprit.
So that’s probably Lulworth or Valerie 3.... but I’m not convinced by the deck house layout.... I actually think she might be Reliance (so not a j..) .. or maybe White Heather 2 (the converted 23 meter...)....
So that’s probably Lulworth or Valerie 3.... but I’m not convinced by the deck house layout.... I actually think she might be Reliance (so not a j..) .. or maybe White Heather 2 (the converted 23 meter...)....
Kukri
Well-known member
Big bowsprit - but Bermuda rig with short boom. In fact a notably short boom for the 1930's.
I am not an expert and I may well be wrong, but I don't think Lulworth or White Heather II were re-rigged from gaff. In White Heather's case, she was scrapped and replaced by Velsheda - the lead from her keel went into Velsheda's keel.
I think she might possibly be "Candida"- although "Candida" now has quite a short bowsprit, I think she originally had a longer one. But the boom seems too short...
I am not an expert and I may well be wrong, but I don't think Lulworth or White Heather II were re-rigged from gaff. In White Heather's case, she was scrapped and replaced by Velsheda - the lead from her keel went into Velsheda's keel.
I think she might possibly be "Candida"- although "Candida" now has quite a short bowsprit, I think she originally had a longer one. But the boom seems too short...
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Praxinoscope
Well-known member
I don’t think she is
K2 Astra, K3 Shamrock, K4 Endeavour or K8 Candida.
But that’s my best at the moment.
Still looks a lovely boat, wish I had, had a chance to sail on her.
K2 Astra, K3 Shamrock, K4 Endeavour or K8 Candida.
But that’s my best at the moment.
Still looks a lovely boat, wish I had, had a chance to sail on her.
Praxinoscope
Well-known member
Looking further, I might have been wrong it could be K2 Astra.
Major_Clanger
Well-known member
I'm pretty sure that's Cambria, a Fife Big Class cutter who was semi-converted to a J.
halcyon
Well-known member
Kukri
Well-known member
+1. Well spotted. She's K4, Cambria.
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
Compared...
Robih
Well-known member
Thanks all, much obliged. Having researched K4 Cambria there does indeed seem a striking similarity to the yacht in the photo. There is an interesting article about the yacht here:
http://www.classicboat.co.uk/articles/cambria-flies-again/
with this text particularly interesting:
Cambria’s early life was taken up wrestling with the vagaries of a YRA determined to keep the King’s yacht Britannia and the other gaffers competitive against the bermudan newcomers; launched for the 1928 season, there are no fewer than five sail plans drawn by Fife for Cambria before 1932. Contrary to popular belief, Cambria was and is not a 23mR; that class existed only under the 1st International Rule that had lapsed during the 1st World War. Under the 2nd version of the rule from 1921, the largest class rated simply “above 20 metres”, but there was an elite group of “Big Class” boats that rated between 23 and 26 metres, including two original 23mR cutters Shamrock (rated at 23.8 metres) and White Heather (24.2 m), Britannia (25.8m), Lulworth (25.8m) and Westward (25.7m), which Cambria initially joined (rated 23.2m). The YRA imposed restrictions on bermudan rig but revised them frequently; the first change to a taller mast for only Cambria’s second season meant a major additional keel weight was added. In the form of a shoe underneath the original keel, it had the effect of burying the ends of all the keel bolts (they were then unseen until 2015, during the refit, when some were removed and inspected; they proved to still be in excellent condition). Also, with no specific Rule to follow, Fife had to build Cambria to Lloyd’s Register’s heavier ordinary scantlings (to +18A1 class) rather than the racing ones; that gave her a margin of strength that helped her survive the relatively few and brief periods of neglect she has suffered, even after she lapsed from Class. The J Class eclipsed the Big Class in the early 1930s; marks on her original lines plan show that Cambria was at least considered for conversion to rate under the Universal Rule, but she was somewhat smaller than even the early Js and it was never done; her destiny was as an elegant cruising yacht. Apart from an addition of an engine in 1934, and the adjustment to her ballast keel to compensate, changes were relatively few. Cambria’s owners evidently maintained her well, and she led a comparatively sheltered life, mostly in the Med, under a slightly smaller but still imposing cutter rig.
If you've read this far you'll have seen that it is said she was not converted to J class but remains a "Big Class" but this is contradicted elsewhere on the web where it is reported she was indeed converted to J class. Whatever the reality she's a very pretty boat. Apparently William Fife said that a yacht should be "fast and bonnie" - not a bad mantra.
Thanks again for the ID assistance.
http://www.classicboat.co.uk/articles/cambria-flies-again/
with this text particularly interesting:
Cambria’s early life was taken up wrestling with the vagaries of a YRA determined to keep the King’s yacht Britannia and the other gaffers competitive against the bermudan newcomers; launched for the 1928 season, there are no fewer than five sail plans drawn by Fife for Cambria before 1932. Contrary to popular belief, Cambria was and is not a 23mR; that class existed only under the 1st International Rule that had lapsed during the 1st World War. Under the 2nd version of the rule from 1921, the largest class rated simply “above 20 metres”, but there was an elite group of “Big Class” boats that rated between 23 and 26 metres, including two original 23mR cutters Shamrock (rated at 23.8 metres) and White Heather (24.2 m), Britannia (25.8m), Lulworth (25.8m) and Westward (25.7m), which Cambria initially joined (rated 23.2m). The YRA imposed restrictions on bermudan rig but revised them frequently; the first change to a taller mast for only Cambria’s second season meant a major additional keel weight was added. In the form of a shoe underneath the original keel, it had the effect of burying the ends of all the keel bolts (they were then unseen until 2015, during the refit, when some were removed and inspected; they proved to still be in excellent condition). Also, with no specific Rule to follow, Fife had to build Cambria to Lloyd’s Register’s heavier ordinary scantlings (to +18A1 class) rather than the racing ones; that gave her a margin of strength that helped her survive the relatively few and brief periods of neglect she has suffered, even after she lapsed from Class. The J Class eclipsed the Big Class in the early 1930s; marks on her original lines plan show that Cambria was at least considered for conversion to rate under the Universal Rule, but she was somewhat smaller than even the early Js and it was never done; her destiny was as an elegant cruising yacht. Apart from an addition of an engine in 1934, and the adjustment to her ballast keel to compensate, changes were relatively few. Cambria’s owners evidently maintained her well, and she led a comparatively sheltered life, mostly in the Med, under a slightly smaller but still imposing cutter rig.
If you've read this far you'll have seen that it is said she was not converted to J class but remains a "Big Class" but this is contradicted elsewhere on the web where it is reported she was indeed converted to J class. Whatever the reality she's a very pretty boat. Apparently William Fife said that a yacht should be "fast and bonnie" - not a bad mantra.
Thanks again for the ID assistance.
Praxinoscope
Well-known member
I think you are correct, there is an image on this website posterversand.de. with the description ‘Philipe Plisson J Class. Cambria 1928’ which looks the same. Should have added art. no 339.01.160.
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Will_M
Member
This doesn't half look like your photo, available to purchase at: https://posterversand.de/Plisson-Philip/Philipe-Plisson-J-Class-Cambria-1928.html
