Which flybridge

[sunseeking]

Hi,
I was buying a manhattan 64 last year but I found out that the boat has a very bad history of water damage in the crew cabin, damage in the hydraulic platform, etc. I backed out of it and now I'm looking for a new boat. I currently have a 2001 sunseeker superhawk 50 and haven't had a problem with it in 3 years other than changing the bow thruster and changing the a/c water pump, so as you can imagine I love sunseekers especially for their looks!! Now I'm looking to buy a flybridge that is similar to manhattan 64-66, does someone have a complaint about these boats? would someone like to steer me away of the manhattan to a better boat such as: fairline, princess, feretti.... but please not the azimut, I've heard my share of stories about these boats.

BTW I have another account but wanted to create a new username but couldn't, so mods if you have to delete this thread go ahead.

 

[Nick_H]

If you like Sunseekers, and the Manhattan 64 in particular, then why not look for one that hasn't had the water damage, there are usually a few for sale at any one time.

I don't think there's a big difference in build quality between SS, FL, and Pr, nor Azimut for that matter (what stories have you heard, they are generally held in high regard AFAIK). From what i've seen, Ferretti do seem to build in a bit more redundancy in the specification of materials, so arguably better built or over engineered, depending on your viewpoint. They are a fair bit more expensive to buy new, so probably more for used models as well.

 

[jfm]

I agree with Nick - if you like the hattan64 then just look for one that hasn't has a smash

I would strongly recommend seatrialing it before committing to see if you and your family etc can stand the exhaust noise. It's loud, due to silencer design not engine fault, and imho utterly unsuitable for long distance crusing. But each to their own on that. In contrast Fairline and Princess use massive Halyard silencers and are much better in the noise department imho

Otherwise have a look at Princess and Fairline. Both generally very nice. Only Fairline in that size range is Sq66/68/70 (all the same boat) which is a much bigger machine than Hattan 64, unless you want a new one in which case Sq65. There are several Princess models that are close to hattan 64 size wise

I personally would find an Azimut built in last few years too lightly/flimsily built, in the furniture/cabinetry department. They have some great features and are very popular in the med though, so go with what you prefer

As Nick says Ferrettis are very nicely engineered with high quality components and nice quality cabinetry. However they have prehistoric flybridge design with no teak and uncomfortable helm stations, so as ever with boats it's a compromise

 

[sunseeking]

I'll be honest with you I have a weakness for sunseekers, I mean their looks are just amazing I consider them to be the megan fox of boats, I just want to make sure that the boat doesn't speak like megan fox haha. I like the layout of the manhattan 64 especially the ones built after 2005 where they changed the layout of the kitchen/saloon, I was just checking to see if there are any significant problems with the manhattan because every time someone complains about a sunseeker it's always about making fun of the slick tires and the cigars and such. Is there any mechanical problems I should be aware of? should I go for CATs or Mans?
I always keep hearing that azimuts have crappy woodwork, and that there's always problems in azimuts. I mean you can't believe everything you hear but I have yet to meet a mechanic that likes them in terms of their seakeeping and I hate how their helm and kitchens look.

 

[MapisM]

...as you can imagine I love sunseekers especially for their looks!! Now I'm looking to buy a flybridge that is similar to manhattan 64-66...

Reading your statement above (and also your last post), the Uniesse 65 immediately sprung to my mind.
Even nicer than the 'hattan (imho), and surely better built.
If you don't mind the less flashy brand, you'd better have a look.
I'm pretty sure you'll buy me a beer afterwards, but I'll gladly buy it to you if you'll think it was a time waste.

 

[sunseeking]

I agree with Nick - if you like the hattan64 then just look for one that hasn't has a smash

I would strongly recommend seatrialing it before committing to see if you and your family etc can stand the exhaust noise. It's loud, due to silencer design not engine fault, and imho utterly unsuitable for long distance crusing. But each to their own on that. In contrast Fairline and Princess use massive Halyard silencers and are much better in the noise department imho

Otherwise have a look at Princess and Fairline. Both generally very nice. Only Fairline in that size range is Sq66/68/70 (all the same boat) which is a much bigger machine than Hattan 64, unless you want a new one in which case Sq65. There are several Princess models that are close to hattan 64 size wise

I personally would find an Azimut built in last few years too lightly/flimsily built, in the furniture/cabinetry department. They have some great features and are very popular in the med though, so go with what you prefer

As Nick says Ferrettis are very nicely engineered with high quality components and nice quality cabinetry. However they have prehistoric flybridge design with no teak and uncomfortable helm stations, so as ever with boats it's a compromise

Can a good silencer be easily put on the Manhattan? on the other hand in about a couple 10-15 years I'd definitely buy a sunseeker 75 yacht that is being offered for 1.85 mill (bank repo), it has a Jacuzzi on the fly and loads of options... but I wouldn't have the satisfaction of taking care of the yacht and being a part of it since it's soo humongous

 

[admillington]

Essex boatyards have a Manhattan 64 for sale now and it appears to be their stock so you could do a no hassle part ex.

http://www.essexboatyards.com/boats/view.php/745/Sunseeker Manhattan 64.html

You need to speak to James Barke to get a reasonable deal.

-Andrew

 

[Hurricane]

Can a good silencer be easily put on the Manhattan? on the other hand in about a couple 10-15 years I'd definitely buy a sunseeker 75 yacht that is being offered for 1.85 mill (bank repo), it has a Jacuzzi on the fly and loads of options... but I wouldn't have the satisfaction of taking care of the yacht and being a part of it since it's soo humongous

I doubt if silencers along the lines of the ones Princess and Fairline fit could be fitted into a Manhattan.
They are huge 3 foot dia towers that drop through the bottom of the hull - a bit fundimental to the boat design.
I've never looked that closely at the Manhattan - I'm a bit surprised that they dont fit them - actually that explains the deep noise you get from Sunseekers.

From memory, the early Manhattan 64s had a fixed bathing platform whilst the MK 2s had the lifting ones.

Personally, with a FB of that size, I like to get the dinghy up top - out of the way - leaves my bathing platform for (well) bathing.

Have a closer look at Princess and Fairline though.

 

[jfm]

Can a good silencer be easily put on the Manhattan? on the other hand in about a couple 10-15 years I'd definitely buy a sunseeker 75 yacht that is being offered for 1.85 mill (bank repo), it has a Jacuzzi on the fly and loads of options... but I wouldn't have the satisfaction of taking care of the yacht and being a part of it since it's soo humongous

No, you can't easily put better silencers on. They are huge things as Hurricane says, and custom made to each design of boat not off-the-shelf

Sunseeker 75 yacht for 1.85mill? Which currency are you writing in? Surely not sterling - you'd be nuts. You can have a base spec new 80footer (Princess, Fairline, Sunseeker) for a few pennies under £2m, and if one of the first two it will be nicely silenced. The new S'seeker80 yacht may also be nicely silenced these days; it was the older models that had noisy exhausts.

BTW, what was your previous username?

 

[sunseeking]

Ok then I think the best thing to do is to take the boats for a sea trial. I was on a manhattan 52 last week but only was on idle speed because we only went to fill up gas, I'll have to go back on it and see how it sounds. And the 75 yacht is listed for $1.85 mill and was previously listed for $2.45 mill(very clean boat)
My previous user name was luicci btw

 

[MYAG]

The new Sunseeker 80 Yacht is indeed now quieter running when compared to earlier Sunseeker models - a shame because I just loved the boom that could go right through you at the right engine revs/load.

Not sure how old the adv for the 1.85m 75 yacht was, but you can pick up a decent 75, 04/05 model yr for around 1.2-1.3m. The 80 Yacht base price with smallest engines (MAN 1360) is 2.52m.

The early Man 64's were fitted with MAN 800's which I believe ran on 4 cylinders when ticking over, this made them sound quite lumpy in marinas. The MK 2's were available with CAT's or MAN's. The CAT's were by far the most popular and quieter running.

Man 64's are changing hands for around 450-550K for Mk 1's and 550-650K for the MK 2's. Decent boat for the money but don't expect it to drive like the Superhawk...... Man 66's are anything upwards of 750k for a very early model. I would definately take a look at the Fairline/Princess if you are buying aroung this size of boat.

 

[MYAG]

Ok then I think the best thing to do is to take the boats for a sea trial. I was on a manhattan 52 last week but only was on idle speed because we only went to fill up gas, I'll have to go back on it and see how it sounds. And the 75 yacht is listed for $1.85 mill and was previously listed for $2.45 mill(very clean boat)
My previous user name was luicci btw

Ahh, greenbacks. Sounds about right for an advertised price.

 

[jfm]

The 80 Yacht base price with smallest engines (MAN 1360) is 2.52m.

Assuming you mean exVAT, you're talking list price I think MYAG. You don't actually pay anything like that if you just rock up with your cheque book. (As you know )

 

[zarathustra]

A very attractive boat,

the Uniesse 65 immediately sprung to my mind.
Even nicer than the 'hattan (imho), and surely better built

 

[MYAG]

Assuming you mean exVAT, you're talking list price I think MYAG. You don't actually pay anything like that if you just rock up with your cheque book. (As you know )

Yes, I did mean exVAT and at MRSP. You are right in that after discount on the basic boat, the price you would pay is considerably lower (think 2m for the basic 80 even with 1360's is pushing it though - unless you have experience to the contrary?) but then who buys a basic boat? Not you, for sure! Nor me, it would be un-useable in the med. So we are back were we started and quite a few quid more..... no?

 

[MapisM]

A very attractive boat,

Have you seen one in flesh?
The pic actually doesn't do justice to her.
Much sleeker and elegant than s/seeker, whose f/b boats are "overdesigned", so to speak.
Sort of Megan Fox as the OP says, but with her plastic surgery implants too...

 

[jfm]

Have you seen one in flesh?
The pic actually doesn't do justice to her.
Much sleeker and elegant than s/seeker, whose f/b boats are "overdesigned", so to speak.
Sort of Megan Fox as the OP says, but with her plastic surgery implants too...

The Uniesse is perhaps a perfect example of why all boats are a compromise. They have beautiful timeless exterior styling and beautifully constructed interiors. Gorgeous stainless steel work and teak decks. The details of their fitouts show the best in Italian design flair. They will customise, but it's limited to mostly furniture and cabin partition positions; they wont add an internal staircase or long range fuel tank.

But then you look more closely (as I did at the 70). Fuel tanks at side of engines not athwartships, which always compromises the e/room. Average not particularly big fuel tanks. Tender has to go on the fly. And finally (and please MapisM, try to get your countrymen to fix this ) a totally crazy lower helm with (among other faults like a single chair and plotters you can't reach) no side window. When you see this in the flesh you think it must be some kind of practical joke, but it's real. Same on the 65. And incidentally, same on that new Aicon 82 - it's not unique to Uniesse. Am I really unusual in thinking this helm is a deal breaker when you're deciding whether to buy the boat? Would other posters buy a boat with this helm?

 

[Nick_H]

No, I agree, it's awful. It seems that Italian builders assume that all boats over about 60 feet will be driven by a paid captain all of the time, and there is no need to make the helm comfortable or ergonomic for him.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

No, I agree, it's awful. It seems that Italian builders assume that all boats over about 60 feet will be driven by a paid captain all of the time, and there is no need to make the helm comfortable or ergonomic for him.

Not only above 60 feet. The 2 Ferrettis I've owned have had **** helms. Actually ergonomically they're not bad. They use one piece windscreens instead of the 2 or 3 piece framed screens you find on Brit boats and they fit good 5 speed pantograph wipers with decent washers so seeing out from the lower helm is actually pretty good. Where they have a total blind spot is the helm seats which are non adjustable bench type seats with a vertical back. The f/b helm seat is particularly uncomfortable with a thin cushion base and a low back; on my last Ferretti, I had some custom upholstery done to ease the pain. Its the same on the latest models too although on some they are now fitting the lower helms with proper adjustable seats but only one seat, not 2 or 3.
I have no idea why Ferretti and, indeed, the other Italian builders (eg Azimut) do this. It must be a conscious decision because they must know how their UK and US competitors design their helms. I cant work it out because in other areas, the design and execution can be very good

 

[MapisM]

please MapisM, try to get your countrymen to fix this

Easy peasy. Just send me a half M Eur cheque, and rest assured that it won't take me more than half an hour to find someone in Chiuduno willing to accept it as a deposit on a new 70', with custom made windows in the side doors...!

Though actually my suggestion was pretty much focused on the OP requirements, which as I understood puts a high value on styling.
In this respect, I made the quick pics collage below.
Now, obviously beauty is in the eye etc., but I think that only a hardcore Sunseeker fan could have the guts to rank the first boat as the nicest.

Mind, I'm not saying that "Italians do it better" no matter what. For instance, I can't think of any Italian builder offering a small speedboat as nice as my Fountain, which was designed in the US 15 years ago or so. And that's a shame.
Otoh, when it comes to design, Sunseeker in the first place - and also other "big name" builders to some extent, quite often don't deserve their reputation, because they can't keep up with the work of smaller builders, capable and willing to make a really good job.

PS: with the usual discalimer, no connection etc. - btw, as probably most of you know, none of these boats are actually my cup of tea, so what I'm throwing in the debate is just my humble, but totally unbiased opinion.