WHICH DIRECTION SHOULD HAWSE PIPE FACE?

[alisdair4]

Hopefully not a repeat of a thread earlier this year: Preventing Chain Falling Over Here .

I am keen to make anchoring my Rival 32 easier. She has a standard anchor locker and a massive sampson post about a foot aft of it. Currently, anchoring involves (as with most boats with what I would call the "unreconstructed anchoring" arrangement) lifting the anchor out, passing it through the bow roller (under the jib roller) and leaving the anchor locker lid open. (There is no cut-away for the chain, so flaking the chain, as I have been taught to do is a real PITA! My planned solution is to drill through the shank of the (galvanised CQR) anchor so that the bow roller pin holds the anchor firmly in place. The problem then is what to do with the lead of the chain. Fortunately, on my boat, there is about 6" between the aft edge of the anchor locker lid and the anchor locker bulkhead. So a simple hawse-pipe opening should allow the chain to drop down into the locker. So far so good!

The exam question is: Should the opening of the pipe face forward, so that the chain runs straight to the anchor shank, or should it face aft, so that the chain can easily be flaked out onto the foredeck? (Water ingress via the pipe is not an issue, as the anchor locker is watertight).

 

[Twister_Ken]

"That'll be athwartships then" said he, hedging his bets

 

[VicS]

If I have understood your description of the layout correctly. The hawse pipe should face aft but be offset from the centre line so that the chain has fair run from it to the sampson post and then from there to the bow roller.
Perhaps it could face the sampson post rather than dead aft.

I cant see that you want it facing the anchor.

Sorry it seems so obvious that i must have misread the question

 

[alisdair4]

Vic,

you may be right, and I may just be being a bit dense. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif . In my defence, I have little experience of fitting hawse-pipes, and windlasses. With that in mind, presumably, if/when I then come to fit a windlass (which may be next winter's big project) in place of the sampson post, this orientation would still work?

 

[VicS]

Perhaps I'm being dense but i failed to notice the mention of future plans to fit a windlass in the original question.

Seriously i know nothing about using a windlass so can't help there. It would be as well to bear that in mind from the outset though as it might be better to have the layout right for the windlass even if not perfect for the sampson post. You can always re-orientate the hawse pipe if necessary but you need to get it in the right place now.
BUT
It needs a straight fall from the windlass into the locker doesn't it, so that'll make the hawse pipe redundant anyway won't it?

 

[reeac]

I assume that you mean that the locker is watertight with respect to the interior of the boat and that it still has a drain hole at its lowest point. Even with this drain hole I would have thought it wise to have the hawse pipe facing aft - such drain holes are easily blocked by mud and you don't really want that locker full of water in heavy conditions and, furthermore, facing aft. seems to be consistent with the position of the sampson post and any future windlass.

 

[Loginname]

I've got no winch, no sampson post and no hawse-pipe.....but would your dilemma be resolved with a hawse-pipe which rotates?
No idea if such a thing is available. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[oldharry]

It should face the person who has to feed the chain in to it. Facing forward will allow it to run out OK, but would be pig to stow the chain in a hurry or in rough water from behind it.

 

[machurley22]

My arrangement has the hawse pipe on the starboard side facing athwartships. This makes it natural to stand on the centreline to get a straight pull over the bow roller and feed the chain down the pipe. It probably doesn't really matter much which way it faces for the drop if you always flake the chain out on deck first.

The only slight drawback is that with a wee boat and a proper wine-glass hull the weight of chain piled up on the starboard side and the anchor also stored on deck on the same side gives me a slight list. I have a massive chain locker for a 22 footer and intend to put a plywood slope in to guide the chain onto the centreline - one of these days. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Don't know anything about the best set-up for a windlass.

 

[Searush]

Mine faces straight up, behind the windlass, so that chain feeds straight down the pipe off the gypsy. It is also easy to hoick chain out to flake it or drop it back in. Unfortunately, I have lost the cap off it and cannot get a replacement. I now have a scutty plastic cap off a spray can stuffed over it to keep the water out.

 

[Colvic Watson]

Do you want to replace the samson post with a windlass? the aren't generally strong enough to hold the chain in a big blow, it should be made off on a post. Sorry if I misunderstood.

 

[roly_voya]

Think you have a few points here.

You don’t really want lots of seawater washing through to ground tackle, tends to convert it to a pile of rust surprisingly fast

I would be hesitant about drilling a hole into the shank of any anchor, the resultant stress concentration could bend or break it.

When you refer to a ‘bow roller pin’ I presume you mean the drop nose pin? This is designed to prevent the cable jumping off the roller and is not load bearing. If carrying an anchor on the roller at sea standard practice is at least two lashings using ¼ rope onto strong points (e.g. the roller itself and a cleat or similar).

The anchor locker on the Rival is fairly long and shallow, if you feed chain into it through a haws pipe at the aft end you may find it all bunches up under the pipe and you have to keep clearing it, quicker to just flake it down into the locker in the first place and then add a cut-out so you can close the lid.

If your aim is to make the anchor self stowing you will need to replace the bow roller with a double roller and rocker style fitting

If you want to improve ground tackle handling is it possible to lead the cable further back into a deep locker with a long drop so it both self stows and gets the wt further back and lower down under the sole? Having an anchor and that self stows is great but the whole thing has to work together with the windlass and it take a bit of work to get all the leads right. If it fouls its worse than useless

 

[westhinder]

Alisdair,

For what it's worth, the anchoring arrangement on my more recent Rival 34 is as follows: the windlass is about 30cm behind the bow fitting (not a roller, just SS cheeks), some 60 cm behind the windlass and on the heartline of the boat is the hawse pipe, which faces forward and is closed off by a lid with a u-shaped cut-away to give a close fit with the chain. I have never had water ingress through it, provided it is closed with care. Drawback of that lid is that it may drop down of its own accord while you're feeding the chain through the pipe, effectively blocking the chain. The anchor is stowed in a well to port of the hawse pipe, which is designed to take a CQR anchor and not much else. The lid of the anchor well has a cut-away for the chain.
That setup works well enough, with one major drawback: the hawse pipe feeds into the chain locker under the forward berth and the chain tends to build a pile under the pipe, blocking the pipe. Then someone has to dive head first into the forepeak, remove a bunk mattress, open the chain locker and distribute the chain evenly around it. Not really practical when you're alone...

 

[Seagreen]

Simple question:
Which way will the chain run out? What will you make it fast to? Where is the sampson post? Ideally, if I picture it right, you'd like the chain to come out of the locker, round the Post then out over the roller. If so, the opening needs to be aft. I suppose if you have the opening forward, the chain can run out a lot quicker, but you don't want this to happen really. Are you relying on gravity to get the chain back into the locker? Make sure the Hawse pipe is well sized with an even radius to the throat of the pipe to ensure the chain goes down smoothly. Also, if the pipe faces aft, its a lot easier to feed the chain back into it if your having to do this.

The previous owner fitted a 1.5" plastic pipe as a Navel pipe which was great for a crewperson to stow the chain with.

As i've no idea what the situation looks like, this all may be tosh. A picture would be nice.

 

[PCUK]

If you have a windlass, as Vic says, there will be no hawse pipe as the chain runs straight down off the gypsy!

 

[pyrojames]

Just a note of caution. If you fit a hawse pipe right at the aft edge of the locker, you may have trouble getting all the chain to self stow, unless your locker is quite deep.

 

[pyrojames]

As long as you have a reasonable fall you can have a hawse pipe remoted from the windlass. I had this on theold boat with the windlass further aft on the foredeck, and an aft facing hawse pipe pointing at the windlass gypsy. I thin there was about a foot between the two.

 

[cliffordpope]

You are all talking about a Naval pipe (runs from deck down to chain locker. The hawse pipe runs from deck down to the hull side about 2/3 of the way up from the waterline.

Only big ships have hawse pipes. It was a favourite way for people to board vessels surreptitiously, and there is a naval expression "coming up through the hawse pipe", whose meaning I can't quite recall.

 

[Bilgediver]

Naval pipe

********************

Sorry mate but a yacht is not a man of war...to be pedantic they are talking about a SPURLING PIPE as it is known in the merchant navy.


/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[pyrojames]

You are technically correct, but I think everyone on the thread understands what is being discussed. Naval pipe/chain pipe is more correct.