Which charts for Axiom MFD?

[Delphin_Rival36]

I am about to upgrade my nav and will probably go for Raymarine Axiom 12" MFD. Before I make that decision I would like to hear any positive and negative feedback about this plotter (I am also looking at the Garmin 7412 and B&G Zeus 3 12"). The non Pro version of Axiom is less expensive but is touch screen only - has anyone had any problems with this? The plotter will be mounted on the coach roof under the spray hood, so will be reasonably dry. Assuming I go with the Axiom, it appears I have a choice of 3 charts; Lighthouse (Raymarine's own), C-MAP and Navionics. Pros/Cons/Value of each?. My sailing is currently UK and Irish waters but will want to go further afield in future. I use Navionics on my iPAD, so I like the idea of having a different chart set to get a second opinion.

 

[Daverw]

If you go with the Navionics you have any option of sharing between the plotter and IPad for routes, wavepoints etc. Yes it can be done with others but easy this way.

 

[Ric]

Navionics is good - but would be so much better if it were possible to upgrade the Raymarine charts from a single subscription on the iPad. Unfortunately the have set it up so that you have to pay twice - once for a subscription to the iPad and again for a subscription ("freshest data") to the plotter. The process to update the plotter charts is ghastly - you have to mess around with SD cards and rather poor apps. And if your two subscriptions don't have closely matching expiry dates - it does not work at all...

Hopefully now that Navionics has been bought by Garmin they might sort out all the bugs in the Navionics system so that clients can just buy a subscription on the iPad (which is worth it to keep charts up to date) and then sync it via wifi to the plotter. That way we could just update iPad charts at leisure when connected to onshore wifi, then slurp it over onto the plotter.

As pure chart ware, Navionics charts are good.

 

[prv]

I have the 9" Axiom. When it came out the software felt a bit unfinished - everything that was there worked well, no bugs, but there were some surprising bits missing. These have largely been filled in by software updates over the year, and I expect improvements and updates to continue. The process for doing so is very easy, either via an SD card or by connecting your plotter to wifi (in my case usually my phone, but marina wifi would work too).

At launch, C-Map wasn't yet supported, so while I too liked the idea of an alternative source, I had to buy Navionics to get any charts at all, and now it's not worth me paying again for C-Map. Lighthouse charts come from various smaller suppliers for the different areas; according to Panbo the one they use in the Carribean is better even than the official charts, and I believe the Netherlands and Baltic coverage is good, but the trial chart I looked at for UK coverage did not impress me.

Regarding Navionics updates, I think I read something about over-the-air updates becoming available on Axiom, so we won't have to faff about with SD cards and their crappy desktop app, but I haven't investigated further. I doubt this will integrate it with the iPad version though - they have always kept the two systems completely separate in order to keep charging the $$ they do for the plotter charts.

In your position I would happily buy the Axiom (the touchscreen is fine), and I would try to have a look at C-Map charts of an area I know well to see how I got on with them. I would ignore Lighthouse unless heading to one of the areas they're reputed to be good at.

Pete

 

[benchmark]

If you go with the Navionics you have any option of sharing between the plotter and IPad for routes, wavepoints etc. Yes it can be done with others but easy this way.

+ 1

 

[davidmh]

If you are mounting it under the spray hood on a rival 36 surely your hands will get wet or damp, how would the touch screen work in those conditions, I have found using a table with wet hands is no good, perhaps the Axiom screen is OK

Regards
David MH

 

[Ric]

Regarding Navionics updates, I think I read something about over-the-air updates becoming available on Axiom, so we won't have to faff about with SD cards and their crappy desktop app, but I haven't investigated further. I doubt this will integrate it with the iPad version though - they have always kept the two systems completely separate in order to keep charging the $$ they do for the plotter charts.

Pete

Yes, it would certainly be a vast improvement if Navionics plotter charts could be kept in date over the air. Their SD upgrade system is ludicrously bad, especially for Mac users.

Another reason I gave up trying to keep my plotter up to date was that even if my iPad also had an active subscription, features such as routes and dock to dock would not work unless both subscriptions had almost identical expiry dates. I never quite got to the bottom of why it would not work because my patience with Navionics support ran out before my subscription and so I gave up subscribing. They really need to start getting up to date with the way most subscription software works - ie one account covers all devices owned by that account. The amount they might lose by pikeys and students ripping them off will be recuperated by increased subscriptions from sailors who just want a simple integrated chart update system.

 

[Daverw]

If the Axiom has WiFi it will sync with the Navionics app for dock to dock routing and wavepoints very easily as long as both subscriptions are up to date, as said it’s a shame that updating is not as easy with one account, this will come I think as more use this option. I would also expect remote control option to Ipad for use down below.

I’ve lowrence touch screen and works far better wet than iPad screen, I’m not sure if it’s the same technology

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Yes, it would certainly be a vast improvement if Navionics plotter charts could be kept in date over the air. Their SD upgrade system is ludicrously bad, especially for Mac users....

Same with Garmin. Updates not possible if you have a Mac. That said I've already declared elsewhere that I don't rate the charts on this Garmin kit that came with my boat ...

 

[Delphin_Rival36]

Thanks for the great input and suggestions - plenty of questions for me to ask the sales guys at the boat show.

 

[Momac]

I have the Raymarine e7 fitted in 2015 which is touchscreen but also with manual rotary control/ buttons.
In a moderate sea the manual controls were very welcome . Using the touchscreen while being bounced about by the sea was more an issue with coordinating fingers rather than any fault of the display. The touch screen still works even when wet but clarity is lost due to grubby finger marks - especially with sun on the screen.
I imagine the Axiom is better then the e7 but I would still wish for manual controls for an exterior helm position. I believe the manual control may be available as remote .

 

[shaneesprit]

I have recently been forced to by an Axiom7 in order to up date, quite frankly dangerous as shipped firmware of my auto pilot, but that’s another story.
looks like if I go for Navionics charts I would have to buy 3 separate charts?
as I am planning for Poole to be my nee location and the boat is presently in South Wales. Doesn’t sound like a great option for me.

 

[pvb]

I have recently been forced to by an Axiom7 in order to up date, quite frankly dangerous as shipped firmware of my auto pilot, but that’s another story.

Do explain, please.

 

[shaneesprit]

I put an EV-100 on my 25ft CAT, and with the firmware it arrived with, well I didn’t see the need to upgrade it, as I didn’t have an MFD to upgrade it with. Well it took a while and a 4 figure sum to actually get it to work.
here is one of the things it used to do.

A life boat actually came across the to me once to see if I was ok due to the erratic direction changes.
Also for me the rudder angle being reduced to about 12’ in either direction is not enough to turn the boat.
I am happier with it now than I ever was but it cost me twice as much as I expected, I still haven’t fully installed the MFD as I don’t know where to put it as I had no intention of buying one and it still has the odd occasion when it can’t do it’s job.

 

[MattS]

I’ve also been looking at MFDs recently, and specifically trying to really get to the bottom of real differences between Raymarine and B&G units.

Speaking to a dealer last weekend, I asked about both of these things:

The non Pro version of Axiom is less expensive but is touch screen only

He pointed out that it was actually cheaper to get the Axiom+ and then buy the manual control button add on to site near it, than it was to go to the pro which I couldn’t justify. You can also buy an SD card extension, which can then be located elsewhere, if access to the rear of the unit is awkward.

The process to update the plotter charts is ghastly - you have to mess around with SD cards and rather poor apps.

He told me that updates over the WiFi was now an option, and that the only consideration was having a decent WiFi connection as the updates are quite big.

 

[MattS]

This PR seems to suggest wireless updates are a feature now, but can’t find the release date https://d2wb2wm9dm62ai.cloudfront.net/migration/documents/NAV418_PR_PlotterSync_Final.pdf

 

[Robin]

I have an axiom 9 and Navionics and rate it highly but the basic version with an add on remote wired control, cheaper option by far than buying the 'pro' version with inbuilt buttons. haven't yet tried updating anything via wifi. My issue with touchscreen is me (Clumsy fat digits) related more than wet or damp, plus the flybridge helm makes some bits hard to access fingerwise as the wheel intrudes on viewing the very bottom of the screen unless I'm standing up.

I also run a cheap android notebook with Raymarine APP which streams the view from flybridge screen (including radar and AIS) to the down stairs helm and allows route planning etc from the warm and dry and remote control too if needs be. The only thing in my case not controllable from the axiom or remotely is our ancient Raytheon 7000 autopilot which would require an expensive course computer upgrade.

 

[shaneesprit]

so what did you pay for the Navionics chart, and which areas does it cover?

 

[Daverw]

Most I speak to use the same as I do, NAV+28XG/UK which is uk, Ireland and Holland, works out £114 ish per year

 

[Freeloader]

I have a 12" Axiom that I installed in a Scan Strut helm pod, along with a remote keypad and a bow thruster control. I chose this setup over the Pro version (with the built-in keypad), as I would otherwise not have been able to accommodate the bow thruster joystick. The touchscreen seems to work well and doesn't seem bothered about wet hands, so I tend not to use the keypad much, although the rotary dial is very useful to quickly zoom the chart in and out. I have no recent experience with other brands, so I can't comment on it's relative merits but it seems to do all that I want and doesn't seem to have any annoying bugs. The Quantum II radar works well on WiFi, although this function is disabled if the Axiom's WiFi is used for other functions, such as connecting to the internet. It would probably be better to connect it via a RayNet cable but the RayNet port on my Axiom is used by the remote keypad, so I don't think that that is possible?

Up to now, I have used Navionics chart cards and, as others have said, updates require that the card is removed and inserted into a PC or laptop - so the much vaunted daily chart updates are not really feasible. Additionally, the SD card port is located on the back of the Axiom and so access to the card requires dismantling of the helm pod. Subsequently, I have fitted the USB card reader accessory to the back of the helm pod to make access to the SD card much easier. More recently, though, I have tried an Imray chart card and have toggled between the two cards to see which I prefer. There are pros and cons with each but these are largely due to the type of cartography, rather than the cartography itself. The Navionics card uses vector graphics, whereas the Imray card uses raster graphics. Simply put, the raster graphics are similar to a photocopy of a nautical chart and so they pixelate if zoomed in too closely but they do have the advantages that they look exactly like the Imray paper charts, there are no hidden 'layers' and they show the light characteristics of charted features on the face of the display. Vector graphics, on the other hand, are made up of 'layers' of detail and, whilst they look lovely and don't pixelate in the same way, the charts sometimes need to be zoomed in to reveal the full detail - this runs the risk of possibly missing charted hazards. Additionally, obtaining the light characteristics of charted features requires the rather tedious and time consuming interrogation of each individual buoy, lighthouse etc.

Opinions will obviously differ over charts but it seems to me that your choice of type of chart really comes down to how you intend to use your plotter. If you are simply happy to navigate entirely via the plotter, especially in familiar waters in daylight, then the glossy images shown by vector charts may be very appealing. However, if you intend to stick to traditional navigation by paper chart and use the plotter as an aid, then you may find that the raster charts are a good option - I do!