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baylabayla3288

baylabayla3288

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Although I had no intention to upgrade my Phantom 38 now but after seing a Ferretti 480 from 2002 with low hours I'm bit by the bug and now I'm seriously concidering making an offer. Fairline's Phantom 46, 48 or princess 45 have always been on my radar if and when I would trade up. Now the Ferretti is definitely a serious alternative. I have ben driving a slightly older F150 (15m) and I was impressed by the stability of the handling under way. Also the sound levels were very low tx to underwater exhausts and a well insulated engine room. The Ferretti has the engines under the cockpit and they are connected to V drives. The transmissions are taking up the trust offloading the engine mounts resulting in vibration free running. The Ferretti 480 ticks many boxes like internal stairs to the FB, additional dinette opposite to the helm, 3 double cabins plus crew and the boat is built to category A giving very solid installations. This example has the 610 hp man engines. Any comments on the F480 and the Man 610 (D2866LE405) engines would he highly appreciated.
 
Deleted User on here had one (or a 46, similar) so can comment best. Very solid boat with high spec ancillary equipment installed, and ticks a lot of boxes as you say. CatA/B is meaningless; don't be fooled by that. Whether you can live with the dashboards and single helm chairs is personal choice but you can mod this if you want to improve it. Accomodation deck is so good it makes you think the boat is even bigger

You don't say where you plan on using it - if N Europe (Finland?) I would consider carefully the resale value of an "unknown" boat and the fact the flybridge consist of a flat roof to the saloon surrounded by a st steel "fence" with Perspex panels. Nothing like the "sit in not on" flybridges of the other boats on your list If buying for the med then it's a great boat and ignore those points. Good luck
 
jfm said:
Deleted User on here had one (or a 46, similar) so can comment best. Very solid boat with high spec ancillary equipment installed, and ticks a lot of boxes as you say. CatA/B is meaningless; don't be fooled by that. Whether you can live with the dashboards and single helm chairs is personal choice but you can mod this if you want to improve it. Accomodation deck is so good it makes you think the boat is even bigger

You don't say where you plan on using it - if N Europe (Finland?) I would consider carefully the resale value of an "unknown" boat and the fact the flybridge consist of a flat roof to the saloon surrounded by a st steel "fence" with Perspex panels. Nothing like the "sit in not on" flybridges of the other boats on your list If buying for the med then it's a great boat and ignore those points. Good luck
Click to expand...

Thanks for the valid comments. Indeed the flybridge should be deeper. The rails are on the other hand much ticker and do not flex like in many similar boats. Also the stairs to the fly from the cockpit are almost dangerous as the get steeper half way. My entended use is Finland and Sweden however the depreciation of the price has allredy taken place. This boat is wider than most competitors of the same length at 4,6m. This makes it feel very roomy and the two guest cabins are equal with no bunk beds. The draft is relatively deep 1,4 which can be a problem. Also on the plus side there is plenty of power with the 610 hp MANs. Here is a video of an identical boat, it is sleek and the design is timeless I would say.
http://youtu.be/ggqcoIr-_p4
 
I am not aware of the Swedish market, but at some point they had a good dealer of Ferretti and Pershing in the area.

At some point a few years ago (before the recession) I had a dozen Scandinavian clients who used to come in Malta to look at a couple of Ferretti I had here for sale.
For them at that point Ferretti was about more a status symbol brand, if you wanted to look different.
 
Ferretti is currently not represented in Finland and MAN leisure marine engines service support is also very limited. Ferretti is however a known quality brand here, sounds a little like Ferrari :-). The main questions still are
1. How does the hull handle a short and step chop. When used to the Phantom the bar is high.
2. Is there any wood used in the underwater sections of the hull, stringers, balsa core etc?
3. Any issues with the 12 litre 610 hp mechanical MAN engines, (D2866LE405)?
Comments are very welcomed
 
1. How does the hull handle a short and step chop. When used to the Phantom the bar is high.

I have not handled a 480, but a 53 in quite nasty seas. The 53 is surprisingly sea worthy, for me it was a tad more sea worthy then similar sized boats of the British three, and most other similar sized boats.
Most of this comes from the weight, a long water-line real hull length, and a better weight distribution to the Brits.
I also have to note that most Ferretti's usually plane at quite low speeds (10-12 knots) with tabs down which is very handy and comfortable in rough seas. They do this cause 99% of Ferretti have no tunnels (I think up until 2005) only the old 70/720 was made with tunnels, and a tad flatter medium Vee aft. Usually about 15 degrees. I think it was 16 degrees in the old 480.

2. Is there any wood used in the underwater sections of the hull, stringers, balsa core etc?
AFAIK Ferretti never used wood (balso core) under water-line, and same goes for PVC core of any brand. I also have to add that the 480 was built in some of the best period for Ferretti 2000 - 2005.

3. Any issues with the 12 litre 610 hp mechanical MAN engines, (D2866LE405)?
I have experience indirectly 610hp and IMO they are pretty reliable engines if kept in service. Parts will be more expensive then Volvo.
 
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Many thanks for the answers, no wood in the hull is really reassuring! On the above video the 480 seems to run quite flat with very little bow up, offcourse there could have been tabs applied.

One more thing, it seems that the 480 has only one big fuel tank instead of 2 smaller, and this seems to be made of fiberglass. How is fiberglass holding up for diesel storage over the years?
 
Hi there,

Hope everything is well. I have nothing much to add, except that I viewed one in Spain some years ago. I remember being impressed by the space and as you said, the internal staircase is very handy (if not for small children). The one I saw wasn't particularly well looked after by her eastern european owner, but if you find a nice example it's a very nice boat. I also think that the Ferretti's exterior design dates very well.

Good luck with the boat hunt, she would make a great base for enjoying the archipelago.

Cheers!
 
scubaman said:
Hi there,

Hope everything is well. I have nothing much to add, except that I viewed one in Spain some years ago. I remember being impressed by the space and as you said, the internal staircase is very handy (if not for small children). The one I saw wasn't particularly well looked after by her eastern european owner, but if you find a nice example it's a very nice boat. I also think that the Ferretti's exterior design dates very well.

Good luck with the boat hunt, she would make a great base for enjoying the archipelago.

Cheers!
Click to expand...

All good here, I hope all is good for you as well! It looks like the boating season will start early this year. The ice is already gone from around my dock but we got 15 cm of snow today :-(. Yesterday I checked the depts in the channel that leads to my dock and it is deep enough for a larger boat even at the low tides we have right now :-). But no deal for a new boat yet and I'm still doing research, what a nice time this is for a boater...
 
Hi baylabayla3288, I used to own a 1999 Ferretti 46 which was the forerunner of the 480 (basically the 480 is the same boat with a slightly longer hull and bigger engines). We liked it so much, we went on to a Ferretti 53 and now we own a Ferretti 630 so you can say that I am a fan of Ferrettis but I can also see their faults too. Just to be clear, Ferretti also made a model called the 43 which later became the 460. Many people confuse the 46 and the 460 but the 460 is definitely a smaller boat, although laid out similarly.

First, just a few general points about Ferrettis some of which you have already noticed. The main point is that they are generally beamier (wider) than other similar planing boats. This translates into more accommodation space and something we particularly like, wider side decks which makes getting around the boat much easier. As you have found out with the 480, no other boat in this class can offer 3 good cabins, saloon and separate dining area plus internal flybridge steps (another point we really like ourselves). Ferrettis are generally well built with heavily laid up grp (not cored below waterline) and thick stainless steel fittings. We also liked the off-white hull colour which to our eyes is classier than the pure white that other builders use. The advantage of being well built for a used buyer like you is that even a 2002 boat should still be in excellent structural condition

The downside of Ferrettis being beamier than average and well built is that they are heavier than average. This means that they are generally fitted with bigger engines and that means they will use more fuel than other planing boats of similar length, not a lot more fuel but don't buy a Ferretti if you want an economical boat to run. I would expect the 480 with these engines to use fuel at a rate of around 0.7 nautical miles per gallon at 20kts. My 46 was fitted with smaller Cat 3208TA engines and I used to plan on around 0.75 nmpg. Ferretti generally fit big fuel tanks so the range tends to be good despite the fuel consumption. Btw, Ferretti generally fit grp fuel tanks in their boats and this is no problem as grp is an excellent material for this purpose

You have noticed already that the 480 has V drive gearboxes like a lot of Ferrettis which puts the engines further aft than planing boats with standard straight through gearboxes. This is an advantage and a disadvantage, an advantage because more space is released forward for accommodation and with the engines being further aft, you feel/hear less vibration and noise inside the saloon when cruising. Ferrettis are generally quiet boats but this is also due to the excellent soundproofing in the engine bay and as you say the exhausts which exit well under the hull. Btw I don't think you're right when you say that the V drive gearboxes contribute to the reduction in vibration. The engines and gearboxes are fixed to the hull just like any other boat. However the difference in the drive train is that Ferrettis always have 5 bladed props (instead of 4 or 3) and this leads to less vibration. The big disadvantage of the V drive configuration is that because the engines are further aft, there is no storage lazarette behind the engine bay. The only other storage areas on the 46/480 are a big space beneath the bathing platform but the problem is that you can only get at it by lifting the tender and a small crew cabin on the port side of the cockpit which is really difficult to enter if you're bigger than average like me. So storing big items like bikes is a real problem

Ferrettis have a medium/deep V hull much like any other planing boat but as I said before they are also heavier and beamier. One major plus point is that the hulls always stretch right the way to the back of the bathing platform so the waterline length is maximised. My 46 used to plough through a head sea rather than slice through it and I guess the 480 won't be much different. It wasn't uncomfortable but it wasn't a sports boat either. In a beam sea I always felt that my 46 rolled less than other boats, perhaps due to the greater beam and I also felt it rolled a bit less at anchor because of this too. In a following sea, it went like any other planing boat ie very well. However there is one thing I have to mention at this point. At the time that my 46 was built, Ferretti did not fit hydraulic power assisted steering so the steering at speed was very heavy; you should check whether the 480 has power assistance or not and if not, make sure you are happy with the steering during the sea trial. PowerYachtBlog makes a good point. Because of the beamy hull and the excellent trim tabs, all Ferrettis including the 46/480 plane down to low speeds, as low as 12kts in the case of the 46/480 so if you are punching into a big head sea, you can maintain a reasonable speed without coming off the plane. Jfm is right about the Cat A CE certification. Ferrettis certainly seem to comply with Cat A requirements with things like all overboard drains being well above the waterline and large scuppers from the cockpit but other boats have this kind of stuff. I think the one characteristic that gets Ferrettis a Cat A certificate is that the beamy hulls allow the boats to pass the stability test for Cat A. But don't think that a Ferretti can go to sea comfortably in conditions that other similar planing boats cannot. They're good sea boats for sure and I've never felt unsafe in any of my 3 Ferrettis but there are other good sea boats out there from Princess and Fairline

Last points. Bad things about Ferrettis and the 46/480 in particular. I have already mentioned the lack of a usable storage lazarette. As you have seen, the flybridge is huge but the coamings and the screen are low so there isn't as good protection from wind and weather as maybe some other boats. Not a problem in the Med but maybe more of a problem in colder N Europe. The next bad thing about the 46/480 and Ferrettis in general is the helm seats, both lower and upper. For some reason, Ferretti have a blind spot about helm seats and they are fixed rather than adjustable, not shaped like a proper bucket seat and a long way from the controls. Having said that, a Ferretti is the type of boat that you set a comfortable speed for and put the autopilot on rather than actually drive it! I sat in the lower helm on my 46 for many hours and I eventually got used to the helm seat and its position. Final point. Jfm is again correct in that you don't see many Ferrettis in N Europe although I saw a few in Denmark when I visited Copenhagen a couple of years ago. A Ferretti might be a bit harder to sell on compared to more common brands so if you do buy one, make sure you don't pay too much for it

If I can be of any further assistance just ask
 
Deleted User said:
Btw I don't think you're right when you say that the V drive gearboxes contribute to the reduction in vibration.
Click to expand...
Actually, I would have thought that it does, to some extent.
I mean, yes, of course the engines and gearboxes are fixed to the hull just like in any other boat, but when the engine doesn't need to withstand the axial push of the shaft (as is normally the case with V-drives, though there are also other ways to achieve the same result), my understanding is that it's possible to use "softer" engine mounts AOTBE, which allows for better vibration damping.
Anyway, one thing I can definitely confirm is that your F630 is by far the quieter planing boat I've ever been on, in that size bracket. :)
 
I never drove the 46 and 480 but I knew in 2000 a person who did not buy a 46 cause of the small engines package, eventually this guy bought a 53, but his friend bought a 480 and the fuel consumption was better at cruise as was the mile per liter of the 46.

Have not actual data in my hand right now but in my experience smaller engine boats do tend to consume more fuel at the cruise because the engine are drinking more cause they are driving the higher RPM range.

In 1997 Ferretti launched the 53 and in the first year it offered two engine options Man 610 and Cats 660hp, the consumption at cruise and range was better (minus 28 knots) with the bigger engines as per technical sheet shown.
I think in reality they never sold one with the Mans.

To be fair I always thought the 46 was under-powered with Cats 435hp engines. But Ferretti insisted on this to be competitive with the cake selling Azimut 46 as per my discussions with them in 1999.
 
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In 1997 Ferretti launched the 53 and in the first year it offered two engine options Man 610 and Cats 660hp, the consumption at cruise and range was better (minus 28 knots) with the bigger engines as per technical sheet shown.
I think in reality they never sold one with the Mans.
Click to expand...
I think I'm right in saying that the 53 was the last Ferretti hull designed by Norberto Ferretti himself and the 3196 660hp Cats were a particularly good match for the hull. My 53 had the Cats and I always felt when driving it that the engines were never stressed and I think that as much as anything contributes to good fuel consumption

To be fair I always thought the 46 was under-powered with Cats 435hp engines. But Ferretti insisted on this to be competitive with the cake selling Azimut 46 as per my discussions with them in 1999.
Click to expand...
You are right. My F46 went OK with the 3208TA 435hp Cats (about 27kts flat out) but the problem was that unlike the Cats in the F53, there was no power in hand to take care of hull/sterngear fouling and extra loading so the top speed of my F46 used to fall v quickly as the season went on. That is the major reason that the 480 was developed as to put more power in the boat they had to lengthen the hull a bit to receive larger engines. Actually I would think that a 480 with MAN 610hp engines would be quite a fast boat
Having said that, I had an AZ46 with Cat 435hp engines before the F46 and that didn't do much more than 27kts either. Both the F46 and the AZ46 are 'big' for 46 footers and the reality probably was that 435hp wasn't enough for either boat
 
MapisM said:
Actually, I would have thought that it does, to some extent.
I mean, yes, of course the engines and gearboxes are fixed to the hull just like in any other boat, but when the engine doesn't need to withstand the axial push of the shaft (as is normally the case with V-drives, though there are also other ways to achieve the same result), my understanding is that it's possible to use "softer" engine mounts AOTBE, which allows for better vibration damping.
Anyway, one thing I can definitely confirm is that your F630 is by far the quieter planing boat I've ever been on, in that size bracket. :)
Click to expand...

OK you could be right there at least compared to straight through drives where the gearbox is attached to the engine but I've also had a couple of boats with straight through drives where the gearbox has been mounted separately so presumably in those cases, the gearbox mountings are also resisting the axial thrust. Yes the F630 is quite smooth when you are driving from inside but I think that is partly because of the 'cab forward' design too. The lower helm is a long way from the engines!
 
Yep, all agreed, though I found your boat VERY smooth also while standing in the cockpit (i.e., just on top of those 12V monsters! :)).

As an aside, I'm not sure of what are the other boats that you have in mind, with straight shafts and separate gearboxes, but it's actually possible to "unload" from the burden of bearing the axial thrust not just the engine, but also the gearbox.
There are in fact shafts, like the Seatorque and the Aquadrive, whose stuffing box is designed to transfer the thrust directly to the hull.
Very clever bits of engineering imho - particularly the first.
That's what I had in mind when I mentioned "other ways to achieve the same result".
 
Thanks Deleted User and all others for very valuable input! This really helps me to gain confidence in the boat. The Ferretti 480 in question has very low hours, less than 400 (this is confirmed from reliable sources). The boat has been standing at least the last 3 years in a varm storage place. What negative effect could this have had on the engines, airco unit or other systems? What else could be expected on re-commissioning other than the usual impellers, filters, coolant, oil changes?
Btw the Ferretti 530 is in my opinion one of the nicest looking boats from this era. Have a look:

http://www.elmarine.com/ferretti-530-yacht-charter.html
 
MapisM said:
Yep, all agreed, though I found your boat VERY smooth also while standing in the cockpit (i.e., just on top of those 12V monsters! :)).

As an aside, I'm not sure of what are the other boats that you have in mind, with straight shafts and separate gearboxes, but it's actually possible to "unload" from the burden of bearing the axial thrust not just the engine, but also the gearbox.
There are in fact shafts, like the Seatorque and the Aquadrive, whose stuffing box is designed to transfer the thrust directly to the hull.
Very clever bits of engineering imho - particularly the first.
That's what I had in mind when I mentioned "other ways to achieve the same result".
Click to expand...

The aquadrive and also the ferretti v drive setup has flexible U joints in addition to offloading the engine from axial thrust. This eliminates alignment issues to a large extent to my understanding
 
baylabayla3288 said:
Thanks Deleted User and all others for very valuable input! This really helps me to gain confidence in the boat. The Ferretti 480 in question has very low hours, less than 400 (this is confirmed from reliable sources). The boat has been standing at least the last 3 years in a varm storage place. What negative effect could this have had on the engines, airco unit or other systems? What else could be expected on re-commissioning other than the usual impellers, filters, coolant, oil changes?
Btw the Ferretti 530 is in my opinion one of the nicest looking boats from this era. Have a look:

http://www.elmarine.com/ferretti-530-yacht-charter.html
Click to expand...

3 yrs! Thats a long time. Was the boat properly laid up before it went into storage or just abandoned by the owner? FWIW, my Ferretti 46 was unused for nearly 2 years before I bought it because the owner's wife refused to go on the boat ever again after a rough sea passage! I didn't have any particular problems with the boat after recommissioning it but I may have been lucky. It goes without saying that you and your surveyor must thoroughly test all the systems and have a qualified MAN engineer do a full test on the engines

Btw sorry to be pedantic, I know your link says Ferretti 530 but actually any boat from 2002 is actually a 53 not a 530. There weren't many differences, mainly cosmetic. 'Rose' is actually quite a well known 53 as it was featured in some cruising articles in Motor Boat & Yachting magazine a few years ago. The owner who I think was Dutch took it to Turkey and back from France, mainly singhehanded. On the subject of model designations, you should check that the 480 you are looking at is actually a 480, not a 48. I think I'm right in saying that the sequence went from 46 to 48 to 480 and only a few 48s were ever made. Again I don't think the differences were huge but its worth checking
 
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