Which anchor?

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daveg45

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I am planning to spend this summer in the Rias Baixas, Galicia hoping to spend much of the time at anchor with the intention of Algarve for winter. Next year planning to head to the Greek islands. My question to this very knowledgeable forum is:-

I am looking at supplementing my main anchor. Lumar delta, 30m of chain and 30m of rope that came with the yacht (specified by Dufour).

it has been suggested I go for a 20kg fishermans and 30m chain and 30m rope. The idea behind the fisherman is that it would be a different anchor system than the delta giving better holding options in rock/kelp. However, I favour a fortress one size larger than the boat size ie FX37 (9.5kg), 10m of chain then the rest rope (as specified on their website). My concern is weight. The yacht is a 42ft dufour 425 around 9 ton and I am not keen to lug all the weight in the bow that the fisherman would involve. What do you use.

I would also like to here from anyone who ahs spent time anchoring in the rias and could give me some feedback as to how often the swell makes anchoring untenable.
 
I know almost nobody who carries a fisherman, although I have seen one or two in use at various times. Anchoring most nights, half the year for the past six years there has been one occasion when I thought that one might be useful. Not worth the trouble, IMHO.

A Fortress makes an excellent kedge but cannot be relied upon as a main anchor, as it has a tendency not to re-set when the tide or wind direction changes.
 
daveg45 said:
I am planning to spend this summer in the Rias Baixas, Galicia hoping to spend much of the time at anchor with the intention of Algarve for winter. Next year planning to head to the Greek islands. My question to this very knowledgeable forum is:-

I am looking at supplementing my main anchor. Lumar delta, 30m of chain and 30m of rope that came with the yacht (specified by Dufour).

it has been suggested I go for a 20kg fishermans and 30m chain and 30m rope. The idea behind the fisherman is that it would be a different anchor system than the delta giving better holding options in rock/kelp. However, I favour a fortress one size larger than the boat size ie FX37 (9.5kg), 10m of chain then the rest rope (as specified on their website). My concern is weight. The yacht is a 42ft dufour 425 around 9 ton and I am not keen to lug all the weight in the bow that the fisherman would involve. What do you use.

I would also like to here from anyone who ahs spent time anchoring in the rias and could give me some feedback as to how often the swell makes anchoring untenable.
Click to expand...

You don't say how large your delta is. It should be at least 20Kg.

I have not used a delta very often but it has a good reputation, although its weak point is apparently soft mud which it gently ploughs its way through. The new designs such as the Rocna and the Manson Supreme, Spade et really now obviate the need for an unwieldy fisherman as they are much more versatile, but have a habit of digging in quite deep making recovery a little harder.

Chain - my own preference is for all chain, but there are good things to be said about both. 30 plus 30 = 60 meters which gives you a maximum depth of anchoring of 12 meters at 5 to 1. Is that enough?

I would be inclined to by another anchor to supplement the delta - I have the Manson - but I am sure you would be as well off with any of the modern ones. I also have a fortress, I would only ever use it as a straight line pull - ie not as the main anchor to swing on.

Enjoy your year. We tossed up between going straight to Greece via the Canals or round the outside. We choise the canals - only tiome will tell if is wat the right decision!
 
Our main anchor is a genuine 65lb cqr which is pants, pig to set, never holds so never used, and we rely on our kedge which is a 14kg danforth, on short chain and 14mm warp, great, sets first time every time in the algarve. We've anchored in some right hoolies and both the anchor and warp have not let us down ... yet.

Strangely the cqr allways worked well over in anglesy and up in scotland.

Also, I have, tucked away under my bunk a 'just in case anchor' of a 50kg fisherman and a lot of heavy chain, and long may it remain there because if I ever needed to use it, it would give me an heart attack lugging it to the pointy end and getting it into the 'oggin let alone recovering it.

Only penury and expensive children stop me from buying a manson or similar.
 
We carry a fisherman and use it.

It has earned it keep on a few occasions. A recent example was the rock and weed anchorage at Arrecife in Lanzarote. (I realise you are not planning to go there). It was the only thing that would get hold.

We carry four anchors. I would not carry less than three and would want them to be of different types irrespective of whether they were modern or old designs.

Enjoy the Rias.
 
The most common set up in the Eastern Med is a "modern" anchor such as a Delta or more sophisticated Manson or Rocna for a bower and a Danforth/Brittany/Fortress for a kedge.

Chain 40-50m and 30m rope spliced on for bower and 5+30 for kedge.

On my Bavaria 37 I have a 16kg Delta, 10kg Brittany and 5 kg Danforth. Scale up for your larger boat, but you need a kedge that can be handled by hand as well as a heavier one.
 
daveg45 said:
I am planning to spend this summer in the Rias Baixas, Galicia hoping to spend much of the time at anchor with the intention of Algarve for winter. Next year planning to head to the Greek islands. My question to this very knowledgeable forum is:-

I am looking at supplementing my main anchor. Lumar delta, 30m of chain and 30m of rope that came with the yacht (specified by Dufour).

it has been suggested I go for a 20kg fishermans and 30m chain and 30m rope. The idea behind the fisherman is that it would be a different anchor system than the delta giving better holding options in rock/kelp. However, I favour a fortress one size larger than the boat size ie FX37 (9.5kg), 10m of chain then the rest rope (as specified on their website). My concern is weight. The yacht is a 42ft dufour 425 around 9 ton and I am not keen to lug all the weight in the bow that the fisherman would involve. What do you use.

I would also like to here from anyone who ahs spent time anchoring in the rias and could give me some feedback as to how often the swell makes anchoring untenable.
Click to expand...

Your post will probably open the whole can of worms. This can be a contentious subject on any forum.

We have a 75lb CQR on 90m 3/8" chain and a 60lb CQR on 30m of chain and 70m of warp.

Our S/Y came with these when we bought her and I have very mixed feelings for CQR and maybe on the whole probably the percentage is negative.

I can only speak for the Adriatic/Ionian/Aegean with them failing to hold more times than they have, even with sending an angel down.

The Gullets seem to carry the fishermans as there main and from observations seem to cope very well, but what pain in the arris to stow them.

The most popular out here (Aegean) seems to be the Delta or some type of claw, so this is on my shopping list. The Fortress I save as a stern anchor and would not like to deviate from that.

Take ya pick and spend ya money......!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
Hi Daveg

Didn't your dad ever tell you not to start a fight you cant win, well it's the same with anchors and asking advice on sailing fora.
What ever you are told is subjective to the person giving you advice, because no skipper will admit their anchor is pants in the holding dept!.

We have travelled through the rias of Spain and and the bottom can be made of many different compositions, so many different anchors will be needed for the various bottoms.

Unfortunately you dont give the size of your vessel so I will assume that it is not capable of carry 8 or 9 different shapes and sizes of anchor.

You dont say how big you Delta anchor is either.
If you have a windlass then your sizes can be larger for any given design and all chain for the first 70 or 80 mts would be better.

We have 4 different anchors on our cat and our main is a 20kg Delta with 70mtr 7/16 chain the 100mtr 5/8 triple plait, but that is just our favorite set up.
We also carry a 20kg Bruce on chain, 12kg Fortress on chain and rope, 20kg Pipper on chain and rope.
Sounds a little excessive I know but we are now in the Caribbean and we have deployed them all and helix sand screws.

Many friends are spending their hard earned on the Ronca(SP) and most are very happy with it.

Our simple rules for anchors are- It dont work in the shop so buy them- buy as big as you can physically handle as when you most need it your windlass (if you have one) will let you down. And variety is the spice of life so 2 or 3 different designs are a good thing, because no manufacturer has yet designed the perfect anchor or we would all have 1.
Anchor chain dont work in the locker so deploy as much as you safely can every time!.

See told you it was subjective and that is my subjection.
The more you anchor the better you get at it.
Good luck and happy cruising.

Mark
 
Fisherman anchors are supposed to be 'the best' in rock and kelp - and I suppose that this was one reason why the RNLI offshore lifeboats continued to carry them.
But oooh dear they were big and heavy - I think an Arun used to have 2 x 150 (or maybe even 175) lb fishermen on the foredeck - and I am not talking about people.... although they needed a few big crew members to handle these beasts.......

Then they did some trials about 18 years ago (I was involved in these, when I was working at the HQ in Poole), and these trials showed then that the 'best' all round anchor - even in rock and kelp - was the Delta. I think it took a while to convince the die hard Operations bods of this, and the offshore boats continued to carry a fisherman as well as one of these new fangled deltas - but now I see that they appear to just have deltas.

Although if they did the same trials again today, and included Rocnas, Mansons, Spades et al, it is probable that they might have to revise their theory that the Delta is the best - but to summarise, they do appear to work reasonably well in rock and kelp.

For the OP's boat, I think it would be prudent to have three anchors - perhaps get a Fortress and another main anchor that can substitute for (or be used with) the main Delta if need be.
 
On my 44ft 11 ton boat we have 2x 26kg Delta with 60 meters chain and another 60 meters of warp. In difficult conditions I chain the two 26kg together, 4.5 meters apart ,the distance between the bow roller and the sea bed (Actually it 5meters) this allowes the last anchor to break out with the other in the bow roller ,we also have a danforth 20kg as a kedge.

At the bottom of the Penoponnis we have chained all three together. Some on here will say not to .For us it works

cheers
 
daveg45 said:
I am looking at supplementing my main anchor. Lumar delta, 30m of chain and 30m of rope that came with the yacht (specified by Dufour).
Click to expand...

I am aware of the reasoning behind limiting chain length to 30 metres, using rope for the remainder. However, the reasoning does not consider stern-to berthing in the Eastern Mediterranean. Every boat I see that berths bows-to, using a typical kedge rode of short chain plus rope, seems to get into a certain amount of trouble. In cross-winds the boat blows down a lot. In a typical, and inevitable, crossed anchors situation the anchor on a rope warp can be impossible to recover. And there is the ever-present possibility that another boat will get your rope around his prop.

Here's one that happened to me, which cured me of bows-to anchoring for ever. The motor boat has my warp around his prop. The man in the water by the dinghy has a carving knife in his hand, which he was just about to use to cut my warp when I managed to stop him. The other man in the water is standing on my stern warp.
P1010205.jpg


So I would argue, strongly on the basis of my experience, that a mixed rode for the bower anchor is a bad idea. I suggest you go for all-chain, at least 60 metres, and berth stern-to every time.
 
>argue, strongly on the basis of my experience, that a mixed rode for the bower anchor is a bad idea. I suggest you go for all-chain

I agree for the reasons you say. Also boats on warp and chain swing around much more than all chain and are a positive menace; And, if you go to the Caribbean (and other places) you wll find sharp dead coral heads and rocks that cut through rope.
 
Well, we use a 45lb CQR with 70m of chain as our main anchor on a 42 foot boat. Of course we carry another back up anchor and chain but I can't remember having used it except as a kedge to keep our bow into the swell to stop us from rolling on a couple of occasions.
We have sailed extensively on our boat both in Europe and the Caribbean over a number of years and can honestly say we have experienced very varied wind/weather and anchoring depths/conditions.
And we have never, to date, had any problems with dragging.
Maybe we are just lucky?
I will say that we always choose our anchoring spots very carefully, sometimes dropping, lifting and re-setting the anchor a few times before we are finally satisfied. We never rush, we always make sure the anchor is dug-in (even snorkelling on it if possible) and never leave the boat unattended for at least an hour or so after anchoring.
We also have onboard, and use, a homemade anchor 'angel' or 'chum' made of lead shot set in resin in a plastic water bottle. Its allowed us to sleep a little easier on occasion!
 
vyv_cox said:
I am aware of the reasoning behind limiting chain length to 30 metres, using rope for the remainder. However, the reasoning does not consider stern-to berthing in the Eastern Mediterranean. Every boat I see that berths bows-to, using a typical kedge rode of short chain plus rope, seems to get into a certain amount of trouble. In cross-winds the boat blows down a lot. In a typical, and inevitable, crossed anchors situation the anchor on a rope warp can be impossible to recover. And there is the ever-present possibility that another boat will get your rope around his prop.

Here's one that happened to me, which cured me of bows-to anchoring for ever. The motor boat has my warp around his prop. The man in the water by the dinghy has a carving knife in his hand, which he was just about to use to cut my warp when I managed to stop him. The other man in the water is standing on my stern warp.
P1010205.jpg


So I would argue, strongly on the basis of my experience, that a mixed rode for the bower anchor is a bad idea. I suggest you go for all-chain, at least 60 metres, and berth stern-to every time.
Click to expand...


Vyv
When you have been out here a little bit longer. That 60 meters of chain alone will not be enough. Only once in the now 19 years that I have been here have i needed to use the warp But I have needed it . I dont use it for every day ,it there for that big occasion .

cheers
 
rtboss1 said:
Vyv
When you have been out here a little bit longer. That 60 meters of chain alone will not be enough. Only once in the now 19 years that I have been here have i needed to use the warp But I have needed it . I dont use it for every day ,it there for that big occasion .

cheers
Click to expand...

I have the option of adding rope to the 60 metres, I have never yet had all the 60 out although I had all 55 of my previous chain out a couple of times. In big blows I put the Fortress out at something like 90 degrees to the bower, it's on 7 metres of chain plus Anchorplait. We have laid like that in about 45 knots of wind, shallow water, very comfortably.
 
phantomlady said:
Well, we use a 45lb CQR with 70m of chain as our main anchor on a 42 foot boat. Of course we carry another back up anchor and chain but I can't remember having used it except as a kedge to keep our bow into the swell to stop us from rolling on a couple of occasions.
We have sailed extensively on our boat both in Europe and the Caribbean over a number of years and can honestly say we have experienced very varied wind/weather and anchoring depths/conditions.
And we have never, to date, had any problems with dragging.
Maybe we are just lucky?
I will say that we always choose our anchoring spots very carefully, sometimes dropping, lifting and re-setting the anchor a few times before we are finally satisfied. We never rush, we always make sure the anchor is dug-in (even snorkelling on it if possible) and never leave the boat unattended for at least an hour or so after anchoring.
We also have onboard, and use, a homemade anchor 'angel' or 'chum' made of lead shot set in resin in a plastic water bottle. Its allowed us to sleep a little easier on occasion!
Click to expand...

It concerns me that you EXPECT to have to re-anchor several times before you get a proper set. Yes, we had the same experience with our CQR (45Ib) and once set it always held, but what a palava. I have since changed and invested in a Manson Supreme, which (so far) has always held 1st time even through weed. I would never go back to the days of the CQR.

The CQR appeared to be at its worst in Turkey going stern to, when we had such immense problems in setting (yes we gave it plenty of scope), it became an embarrasment and we abandoned it for the danforth kedge. Diving on the CQR whilest in the process of anchoring, saw it skidding on its side, and never digging in at all. Never ever will I have one on board again.
 
vyv_cox said:
I have the option of adding rope to the 60 metres, I have never yet had all the 60 out although I had all 55 of my previous chain out a couple of times. In big blows I put the Fortress out at something like 90 degrees to the bower, it's on 7 metres of chain plus Anchorplait. We have laid like that in about 45 knots of wind, shallow water, very comfortably.
Click to expand...

Hello Vyv

On my boat the warp is permanently fixed to the chain ready for that day.
When stern to mooring, I alway put a min of 50meters out, irrespective of the depth this way, went the bareboat and flotilla sailors come in, my anchor is never lifted if they have crossed over my chain.
Most of these holiday sailors rarely put enough chain out imo, they often lift my chain but never the anchor all that I need to do to set them free, is drop a little more chain, they are then able to release their anchor and go and enjoy their day, I pull in the amount let out and all`s well. stress free living.

cheers bobt
 
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