Which anchor set have you tried,,, tandem or V formation

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Artic Warrior

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Hi All,

Ive set my boat up for storm anchoring in a v formation or in tandem, but have not used either yet in anger.

Am concerned that the v rode formation could make the anchors collide when the wind turns to 90 deg.
making the anchors trip each other up, while they try to reset.

The tandem formation is ok until a 180 deg wind change happens,

I under stand that the tandem could get messy and heavy but I like the idea

I carry two 25kg danforths 1x 25kg delta and 1x 36kg manson and a 15kg bruce kedge

What are peoples views,
Colin
 
Anchoring in a river , if strong tides or high winds are expected.I use a tandem setup .20kg Brittany type(made in Spain, great in mud or sand) 10mm chainbetween that and the bower ,which is a 20kg Delta. The danger is that on the change of tide or wind ,one may trip the other,but I've never had this happen. Using v format I have had huge tangles to sort out,when warps/ chains have fouled . Very hard to recover single handed ,especially if space is restricted or you're on a lee shore
 
I have used the vee formation many times but, as you say, problems arise when the wind shifts. In the Mediterranean meltemi and around Bonifacio strait this is rarely a problem. It is well worth using, both because it makes life aboard far more comfortable but also because it cuts out the severe yawing that constantly works at a single anchor, eventually breaking it out. There is a light-hearted write up of one of our experiences at http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Thoughtsatanchor.aspx

So far as tandem anchoring is concerned I have lots of doubt whether it does what people think. My experience in other fields, e.g. high pressure gas seals, bearings, screw threads, shows that load is never divided equally across two or more items but one always takes most or all of it. I suspect this to be the case with anchors and hope to test it before too long.
 
I've used V formation a lot.

If I was anticipating a 180 degree wind shift I'd use a Bahamian moor and treat it like a reversing current situation. I'd also choose my anchorage carefully in anticipation of such an event. In fact, in anticipation of any severe wind shift I set the V wider - one anchor to present wind, one anchor towards the anticipated new wind direction.

I'm unconvinced that tandem anchoring provides any advantage over a single anchor properly set.
 
See ive read a bit about what Skip novak thinks as well as a few other renown people,
Ive done some test in a field with some production anchors and some that ive made over the years, funny one I made 18 years ago is just like a rocna and manson,
God it works well. Only if I knew then,,,,,Hindsight is a wonderfull thing and could of been rich by now,,,but stayed well away from china with manufacture side of it,,,hee hee

I think I will continue with v rode, as like you say the forces on that one rode and all its connecting areas could give problems.
I use 100mtrs 12mm chain and can hang most things of the end of that, but still prefer the v formation
 
When we had the CQR lookalike, we used to shackle the Fortress to it and lay tandem which never dragged. Now we have the Manson, that's been fine on its own - so far. Not tried V mooring, seen too many tangles and most of the time they're riding to one anchor only as the boat swings a bit.
 
I have tried tandem anchors. A 35lb CQR nearest the boat and a 20lb Danforth furthest away.

It held the boat OK but then I've no way of knowing whether or not the CQR alone wouldn't have done so. I suspect it probably would have.

It's worth ensuring that the distance between the anchors exceeds the depth of water. So that one is on board before you start to weigh the other.
 
Your right, even thou the boat may lie only to one of the anchors, the effect of the second will reduce yaw, .
we had 45 knots through the anchorage at yat marine here a couple of months ago and I was very interested in which boats yawed and rode the anchor terrible, the only one that didn't was Barbican 33 which had a manson set, but they are a long keel so maybe that's why, he did have his lift keel up by the way.
vyv_cox said:
Yes, that's how it works. The boat lies to one, then the other, but the angle of yaw is halved by comparison with lying to one anchor.
Click to expand...
 
Artic Warrior said:
Hi All,

Ive set my boat up for storm anchoring in a v formation or in tandem, but have not used either yet in anger.

Am concerned that the v rode formation could make the anchors collide when the wind turns to 90 deg.
making the anchors trip each other up, while they try to reset.

The tandem formation is ok until a 180 deg wind change happens,

I under stand that the tandem could get messy and heavy but I like the idea

I carry two 25kg danforths 1x 25kg delta and 1x 36kg manson and a 15kg bruce kedge

What are peoples views,
Colin
Click to expand...

I can never see the point in carrying multiple anchors and using complicated set ups [ other than in reversing current situations when you need the 2 anchor 180 degree Bahamian set up ] Sell two of the heavier anchors and buy a new one equal in weight to the sum of the two you just sold.

One big f***er is definitely better than two small ones.

The one thing nobody ever says when it is 3 am, blowing like stink, raining cats and dogs and black as pitch is " Hmm wish I had a smaller anchor. "
 
I've used the V formation on a couple of occassions and it does stop the boat yawing about. As I had a big Bruce and a small Fortress the prospect of tandem anchoring dididn't make sense but the Fortress stopped that mad swinging about. Excellent!
 
The reason why the two extra danforths are on board on the deck are because the boat used to live in the artic and I suppose they were for anchouring with four lines keeping the boat steady while the tide went out, (Lift Keel up),,,like as you put it,,,,need one big bugger rather than a bunch of small ones
TQA said:
I can never see the point in carrying multiple anchors and using complicated set ups [ other than in reversing current situations when you need the 2 anchor 180 degree Bahamian set up ] Sell two of the heavier anchors and buy a new one equal in weight to the sum of the two you just sold.

One big f***er is definitely better than two small ones.

The one thing nobody ever says when it is 3 am, blowing like stink, raining cats and dogs and black as pitch is " Hmm wish I had a smaller anchor. "
Click to expand...
 
The v formation/Bahamian is good news, I do prefer the v but was very curious about the tandem,
SHUG said:
I've used the V formation on a couple of occassions and it does stop the boat yawing about. As I had a big Bruce and a small Fortress the prospect of tandem anchoring dididn't make sense but the Fortress stopped that mad swinging about. Excellent!
Click to expand...
 
I've never used tandem method, and probably never will. In heavy weather I sometimes use two in a Vee. I learned many years ago, the hard way, with a bigger boat, not to use two chains in a Vee. When the gale died down during the night, after three days, the boat must have turned pirouettes, and two chains, one 16mm, and the other 18mm, took some sorting!

Now if using a Vee, my bower is on all chain, and the second anchor has a fairly short heavy chain, and then nylon. I always put a tripping line and buoy on the second anchor, so that if necessary, it can be slipped and picked up later.

I'm not sure that two anchors stops the boat swinging about, but it certainly means that the pull on both anchors does not vary in direction. stopping the boat swinging can be achieved with a riding sail.

When I have left my boat for several weeks unattended in a sheltered sea loch, I have always used a Bahamian Moor.
 
I like the tripping line idea which I do have, but here in the eastern med it liable to get run over with the tight anchorages that go on here
NormanS said:
I've never used tandem method, and probably never will. In heavy weather I sometimes use two in a Vee. I learned many years ago, the hard way, with a bigger boat, not to use two chains in a Vee. When the gale died down during the night, after three days, the boat must have turned pirouettes, and two chains, one 16mm, and the other 18mm, took some sorting!

Now if using a Vee, my bower is on all chain, and the second anchor has a fairly short heavy chain, and then nylon. I always put a tripping line and buoy on the second anchor, so that if necessary, it can be slipped and picked up later.

I'm not sure that two anchors stops the boat swinging about, but it certainly means that the pull on both anchors does not vary in direction. stopping the boat swinging can be achieved with a riding sail.

When I have left my boat for several weeks unattended in a sheltered sea loch, I have always used a Bahamian Moor.
Click to expand...
 
V means two rodes, tandem means one. If a rode fails....
I also us a V with lanyard to pull the bows into the swell in places - less rolly-polly
 
We do not like the idea that one anchor, set behind the other, ploughs (is that an obscene word?) into the furrow of the one in front. For us it would mean attaching a second anchor (which would be as big as the one on the bow roller) to the primary, lowering it by hand to the length of its chain and then deploying the primary - I challenge anyone with a 25kg anchor to try it, middle of the night, rain, bit of chop - but then I'm a unashamed weakling.

We have successfully used the 'V' a number of times, deployed from either the yacht or a dinghy. As Vyv reports it means each anchor takes the load in turn and that load is in a straight line (the way the anchor was designed). It also stops, or reduces yawing. It would not work for a storm (when else would you use it?) that is forecast to veer more than 90 degrees - but fortunately we do not enjoy that here (unless you live in the tropics, in which case you would be suffering a cyclone, would be up a creek tied to mangroves with a web of anchors as well).

In tight anchorages we would tie to a tree or rock and have 2 anchors set as a 'V' seaward - if everyone does it (and strong wind is a great incentive) you can double the numbers of available spaces.

So horses for courses - compromise, there is no one answer, but deploying a 'v' works for us.

Jonathan
 
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Neeves said:
We do not like the idea that one anchor, set behind the other, ploughs (is that an obscene word?) into the furrow of the one in front. For us it would mean attaching a second anchor (which would be as big as the one on the bow roller) to the primary, lowering it by hand to the length of its chain and then deploying the primary - I challenge anyone with a 25kg anchor to try it, middle of the night, rain, bit of chop - but then I'm a unashamed weakling.
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Has anyone actually witnessed tandem anchors dragging underwater? Getting such a precise constant angle out the chain to line up the second anchor exactly in the furrow produced by he first one seems unlikely, but maybe something does happen.
Also, why does the second need to be the same as the primary?
Attachment point could well be a bigger issue, with the force of the second anchor changing the direction of pull on the primary and upsetting the set. Afaik, rocna is the only one with a dedicated attachment point on the back of the shank.

Or have a nice big one to start of with :)
 
No, never seen anyone use a tandem anchor set up, let alone seen it set - just a guess (its the idea of setting it up that puts us off - the one ploughing behind the other just makes it even less attractive). An Anchor Right Excel has a 'tandem' attachment point or a hole on which to attach a trip line at the base of the shank, Spade has a hole at the back of the fluke (they are quite common). Who said they needed to be the same design, an idea of having more than one decent sized anchor (all of which can be the primary) is that they can all be different styles - making the most of compromise and not putting all you eggs in one basket:)

Jonathan
 
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