Which anchor set have you tried,,, tandem or V formation

Laying 2 anchors, we do what OldBawley does.

Prefer to lay from the dinghy, you have better control of where you lay the anchor. But if the dinghy is not possible then lay the second anchor ready to deploy on the foredeck, motor to where you think you want to deploy (helps if you set the GPS of the primary, or first anchor) and then dump over side. When you think you have deployed about a 3:1 scope try to set it and if successful drop back to where you want to be. Take in new rode such that its about the same tension as the first.

Deploying a second anchor by hand is easier if its alloy.

Jonathan
 
Someone asked about the angle of the 'V' and it was rightly suggested, I think by Vyv, that what is discussed in theory might be more difficult in practice - a view with which I wholeheartedly agree.

Our practice would be to base the angle of the 'V' to what we expect the wind to do. If we are in a location exposed to the wind, say its blowing of low land, then we might expect the wind not to vary too much (so less shear) and we might aim for a 'V' of 30 to 45 degrees. If the wind varies considerably we might open the 'V' up to 90 degrees. But this is the theory - if we got it wrong we would not worry too much but we would try to have as long a rode as possible on the primary anchor and have the second rode a similar length. Though if we set the angle incorrectly we would vary the rode length of the second rode to have each rode roughly the same angle either side of the average wind direction.

Jonathan
 
I agree debris can cause an anchor not to set. With a new generation anchor the nice thing is that this is the most common reason for it not to set the first time.
If it has landed on debris, or not set for some other reason it is obvious because it will not hold when reverse is applied.

Very occasionally especially in rocky areas the chain will jam under a rock. This can hold full reverse with no load on the anchor and therefore the anchor is unset. The danger is that the chain can unjam leaving you lying at an unset anchor. Most of the time the anchor will set itself anyway, but anchor alarm provides a final back up. I nearly always dive on my anchor and the above is quite rare, but is a good reason to always use an anchor alarm especially if you cannot dive to check the anchor.
 
Neeves said:
But if the dinghy is not possible then lay the second anchor ready to deploy on the foredeck, motor to where you think you want to deploy (helps if you set the GPS of the primary, or first anchor) and then dump over side.
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It takes a lot of skill to do this in strong wind (which is when you need to, because it too rough for the tender). It is easy to place an undue snatch load on the main anchor and unseat it.

If the wind is strong (say 40 knots) think carefully about the risk. If you do unseat the main anchor it is no fun to be dragging two anchors in these sort of conditions.

If you want to set two anchors do it early when conditions are reasonable.
 
Thanks everyone.

So I have learned; similar scopes and 45° - 90° depending on conditions. Also Vyv made the point of having the secondary rode marked with length marks which our 50m of three strand isn't.

Ideal way is to lay from dinghy but as I said earlier, by the time I think our primary anchor needs help it will be too late. I take the point, also made by Vyv, that using the dinghy means you have the boat as a reference point which should make calculating the position of the new anchor easier. I always make a mental note of where I lay the anchor but this is usually just in the form of 'it's 25m from that rock/tree etc'. I can see that as soon as we motor forward to lay the new anchor it may be difficult to work out where to lay the new one. I have a new small tablet computer with GPS. As people no doubt know, there are various anchor watch apps, one of which allows you to 'project' the position of the anchor onto the screen. I want to learn how to write an app so might have a go at one which might be useful.

Thanks again. Everyone is very helpful on the liveaboard forum, presumably all of you are chilled, in contrast to the testosterone fueled racer types with points to prove that are found elsewhere ;)
 
noelex said:
I agree debris can cause an anchor not to set. With a new generation anchor the nice thing is that this is the most common reason for it not to set the first time.
If it has landed on debris, or not set for some other reason it is obvious because it will not hold when reverse is applied.
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Our Rocna dragged at Alinda in fierce gusting winds. The odd thing was that we had been there for 12 hours before it decided to let go. When the anchor was recovered we found a massive ball of monofilament nylon fishing net wrapped around it, so much that we had a struggle to press it into a full sized bin bag.
 
vyv_cox said:
Our Rocna dragged at Alinda in fierce gusting winds. The odd thing was that we had been there for 12 hours before it decided to let go. When the anchor was recovered we found a massive ball of monofilament nylon fishing net wrapped around it, so much that we had a struggle to press it into a full sized bin bag.
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The best find our Rocna has made was in Canna. Felt resistance and eventually pulled up a length of chain with a brand new Kobra anchor on the end. Left it on the ro-ro slip but made me think about how good a Kobra is (or isn't) and what were the circumstances that led to it being abandoned.
 
I have noticed that many people think they just have to buy an extremely expensive anchor and trust it.
I believe in a variety of anchors. Modern anchors are way way better than our CQR, no doubt, but I have anchored in many places where even those super anchors would fail.
For instance, my favourite anchoring spot needs two anchors simply because it means anchoring on a steep ridge just yards from a reef. No single anchor can guaranty a good hold there with the winds turning 90° each night.
Other examples : the anchorage in Göcek Turkey. Any anchor will hold in winter, spring and summer, yet in autumn only a giant surface anchor will hold a boat in the thin mud caused by thousands of yachts and gullets anchoring there over sailing season. And .. autumn is a dangerous time for thunderstorms.
I know more examples, extreme hard, extreme soft... For instance, Kolympia, Se coast of Rhodes.
A giant flat rock plateau covered with nothing. Just here and there a rock bolder or a fine crevice on the bottom. Looks sand seen from above, its solid rock.
No magic anchor will hold there. Seen near accidents. I had anchored, used a Greek fisherman’s anchor and laid the chain twice around a rock boulder. Hold as rock but one has to dive.
Our boat seams to attract others, they think” Ohh, that looks nice, if he anchors there we can also “
Nice shiny yacht arrives, lowers the ***** multi dinero anchor. Pulls, all ok. Seconds later the dingy leaves for the beach, I did not even had time to row over and warn them. No way that anchor is dug in, the point just sat in one of those crevices. They ware lucky, saw there boat going off and had a big outboard.

Only have Med and North Sea experience, other places, other situations.

Why do I anchor in those “ difficult” places ? Because I can and very often the places witch are not in Rod´s pilot are really interesting.
 
vyv_cox said:
Our Rocna dragged at Alinda in fierce gusting winds. The odd thing was that we had been there for 12 hours before it decided to let go. When the anchor was recovered we found a massive ball of monofilament nylon fishing net wrapped around it, so much that we had a struggle to press it into a full sized bin bag.
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It reads as if there was more than just a surprise! On the assumption you thought the anchor would hold what was the sequence. Or do you always have a second anchor sitting ready just in case of such eventualities.

But we are with you OldBawley, never think that one anchor, even one big modern anchor is a panacea. Horses for courses, though we do not carry anything for flat rocky shores (other than do as you do, wrap the chain round a boulder) - I suspect we would go elsewhere.

But difficult anchorages have the significant advantage of being quiet (ignoring the fact you become a beacon for others to anchor as close to you as possible:) )

Kobras are good, but have a very suspect shank - in terms of strength.

Jonathan
 
TQA said:
I can never see the point in carrying multiple anchors and using complicated set ups [ other than in reversing current situations when you need the 2 anchor 180 degree Bahamian set up ] Sell two of the heavier anchors and buy a new one equal in weight to the sum of the two you just sold.

One big f***er is definitely better than two small ones.

The one thing nobody ever says when it is 3 am, blowing like stink, raining cats and dogs and black as pitch is " Hmm wish I had a smaller anchor. "
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Sometimes they say, I wish I'd deployed two anchors, or even had a decent second anchor to deploy.

You obviously have no faith in the idea that 2 anchors in a 'V' minimise yawing? Its actually not complicated at all - but if your anchor wardrobe is 55kg models - it would not be easy. It really works if you use alloy (as the second) and you have a moderate sized yacht (or big engine, to deploy). You obviously also believe one anchor fits all seabeds :) - maybe I should buy what you use.

Jonathan
 
Artic Warrior said:
Without creating another what anchor do you have thread,,,,,,

Makes me chuckle, that skip novak in all those massive artic and antartic storms that he is in uses a CQR,,,
Its a big one but still a CQR.
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And Sunstone, awarded for a cruise in 2012 around the northern Pacific, from Japan to Canada, and lots of anchorages (carry a CQR, which does not look very large) and there were another couple of boats (also given awards) that did the NW Passage also 2012 (carried CQRs). They must have had other anchors. Obviously not enough time to read anchor threads - if only they had known how dangerous it was and how lucky they were to survive.

I smile and wonder:)

Jonathan

But the thread is not about design, nor about size nor about using one anchor but about experience of using a tandem or 'V' set up with 2 anchors and its civil:)
 
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Neeves said:
You obviously also believe one anchor fits all seabeds :) - maybe I should buy what you use.
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The days of having to change bower anchors for different seabeds are (just about) over. Good, modern, new generation anchors are very versatile and work very well in almost all seabeds. This is one of their major improvements over their older cousins that often performed poorly in some seabed types.

The only exception is very heavy weed where a specialist weed anchor may be needed. The specialist weed anchors have very poor holding in softer substrates (which may be under the weed) and generally need to be very large (weight and physical size) to work. So even in thick weed a big new generation anchor may still be the best option.
 
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Our near submarine yacht does not veer behind its anchor. Low windage, huge long keel, way to heavy for it´s size, and the snubber line enters the boat at the tip of the bowsprit ( over a big block )

Modern yachts sail all over the place hanging behind one anchor so I wonder why they do not put a spring onto the chain ( Rolling hitch ) and lead that line to a stern cleat, then to a winch. That way one can alter the angle the yacht makes into the wind. Should steady the yacht. With older designs it does, don´t no how modern big windage yachts would behave.
 
OldBawley said:
Our near submarine yacht does not veer behind its anchor. Low windage, huge long keel, way to heavy for it´s size, and the snubber line enters the boat at the tip of the bowsprit ( over a big block )


Modern yachts sail all over the place hanging behind one anchor so I wonder why they do not put a spring onto the chain ( Rolling hitch ) and lead that line to a stern cleat, then to a winch. That way one can alter the angle the yacht makes into the wind. Should steady the yacht. With older designs it does, don´t no how modern big windage yachts would behave.
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You obviosuly never sailed on an X-99, modern yacht, well they were then, low windage and when offshore the decks were constantly under water.


I suspect when you suggested putting a spring onto the chain you were thinking of a spring not a spring:)

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?379444-Anchor-snub-lines

I'm guessing you have been following this one as well.

Jonathan
 
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OldBawley said:
I have noticed that many people think they just have to buy an extremely expensive anchor and trust it.
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Do they? Anyone here think that? Doesn't sound very clever.

The behavior of many experienced long distance cruisers seems to be get a good new gen a size or maybe 2 up as well as a spare bower of a different design plus something like a fortress as a kedge/spare and maybe a big fishermans for rock. That way most anchorages are covered with some options for any which aren't.
 
GHA said:
get a good new gen a size or maybe 2 up ......
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When I bought my Rocna, quite a few years ago, Craig Smith told me that the size advised for my boat was intended to be sufficient for any conceivable conditions, so that was what I bought. I cannot say I have tested it to the ultimate but it has never given me any problems, provided the bottom was reasonable. Conversely, a couple of seasons ago we were with a boat several feet shorter than ours with a new Rocna a size bigger than ours. He experienced considerable difficulty in getting it to set, despite using max revs astern. It seemed to me that the anchor was too big for the available pull, at least in that bottom. Ours set first time.
 
Woopee! Another anchor thread.

When I deploy a V, I place the bower as normal and when convinced it is stable, put the helm over and engage slow forward. This propels the boat forwards and sideways relative to the set anchor. When it feels about right, I drop the second anchor and take off the drive and let the boat settle back. Then adjust the second rode to taste. Simples.
 
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