Which anchor advice sought.

[Koeketiene]

Just something else to mull over.

Thank you for your contribution - food for thought indeed.

Now, to go into (excruciating) detail regarding the sailing I do and when I envisage anchoring.

1. 90% of the time I sail singlehanded.
2. My main cruising ground is southern Brittany. Sheltered anchorages (rivers, island archipelagos, ...) are a plenty. Never more than a couple of hours sailing in between. As are harbours/marinas with moorings or pontoon berths.
3. I will not be anchoring 'in a chop, breeze, ... '. Why would I when there's secure shelter nearby?
4. The plan, as it stands, is that when I do plan to anchor, I assemble my anchor before I set off and mount it on the bow roller ready to deploy when I arrive at my chosen anchorage. I do not plan to spend more than a night at anchor or to leave the boat unattended for more than a couple of hours.
5. Whilst I plan to anchor in benign conditions only, I would expect my anchor to be able to cope with strong tidal currents.

I have considered stern mooring (I like a bit of 'out of the box' thinking) but I don't think it will be a viable option.
The tidal range can quite large here so I will need a fair length of chain/rode - where would it go? There is a small aft lazaret, but that's where the autopilot (hydraulic ram and RFU) and the Eberspracher live. Add to that my fenders, and there's simply no room for anything else.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Thank you for your contribution - food for thought indeed.

Now, to go into (excruciating) detail regarding the sailing I do and when I envisage anchoring.

1. 90% of the time I sail singlehanded.
2. My main cruising ground is southern Brittany. Sheltered anchorages (rivers, island archipelagos, ...) are a plenty. Never more than a couple of hours sailing in between. As are harbours/marinas with moorings or pontoon berths.
3. I will not be anchoring 'in a chop, breeze, ... '. Why would I when there's secure shelter nearby?
4. The plan, as it stands, is that when I do plan to anchor, I assemble my anchor before I set off and mount it on the bow roller ready to deploy when I arrive at my chosen anchorage. I do not plan to spend more than a night at anchor or to leave the boat unattended for more than a couple of hours.
5. Whilst I plan to anchor in benign conditions only, I would expect my anchor to be able to cope with strong tidal currents.

I have considered stern mooring (I like a bit of 'out of the box' thinking) but I don't think it will be a viable option.
The tidal range can quite large here so I will need a fair length of chain/rode - where would it go? There is a small aft lazaret, but that's where the autopilot (hydraulic ram and RFU) and the Eberspracher live. Add to that my fenders, and there's simply no room for anything else.

I know your cruising ground and we are currently stationed in Northern Brittany.

As a singlehander, you really do not want to be lugging the ground tackle back and forth every time, even if you intend to only use it occasionally.

Anchoring grounds in your area would mostly be sand (off the island beaches, the Glenan etc.) and mud (rivers, estuaries).

As others and I have suggested, an aluminum Fortress type mounted flat on deck in chocks would be a good solution as an anchor choice and suitable for the most common grounds in your cruising area.

I know quite a few cruisers who store their chain and rode in what we call milk crates (essentially big, sturdy, plastic mesh crates) on deck at the mast and strapped to the granny bars or so.
Alternatively, if we want to stick with the Scandinavian theme for a moment, In the Baltic, they often use flat webbing on spools for a stern anchor rode, frequently mounted on the pushbit. Something like that could easily be adapted for your needs, even mounted at the stern and the business end brought forward when needed. These spools are widely available from German online chandlers and are designed for precisely that use. Make sure they are UV stabilized or keep them covered.

 

[Refueler]

Unless you are truly offshore, not having an anchor ready to go is a significant risk. I'd take the time to create secure on-deck storage for one good anchor, rather than faff around with take-apart anchors you won't be able to assembly in critical moments. If you are within sight of land, you really need an anchor ready to go.

(I have nothing against take-apart anchors. Could be handy. But I feel like even on a small boat, the bower should be ready to go and the kedge should be in a convinient place, in one piece. A back-up could be in the bilge, or possibly the bower for a multi-day passage, if the weather suggests it.)

Having had twice to use anchor in emergency - I can only add my support to this.

Coming out of Bembridge - the forestay along with furling gear pulled out of stem ... we were in a rising wind and quick reaction throwing the anchor over was called for ... then we could set to getting that lot under control instead of ending up a statistic against the Forts rocks !

Engine had failed at Folly Inn ...... so we sailed down the river and across to Hayling Yacht Co channel .. pal of mine insisted he could sail her round the windy channel but he hit the mud ... over went the trusty plough anchor before we got driven further on. He and the 'girls' got a lift of another boat (he tried to tow us but being a MacGregor - it just skitted about on the water ...) and taken ashore.
A combo of genny and anchor ... alternating - I managed to get her to the outer pontoon ... better a job on your own as its hard to explain what you want and each throw of anchor / use of genny needs to be quick ...

So sorting a decent anchor and stowage ready for use is in my opinion fair comment.

In terms of stowage ... my plough sits in chocks with light lashing to stop it being "washed away" ... its survived storms there ..

 

[Tranona]

Thank you for your contribution - food for thought indeed.

Now, to go into (excruciating) detail regarding the sailing I do and when I envisage anchoring.

1. 90% of the time I sail singlehanded.
2. My main cruising ground is southern Brittany. Sheltered anchorages (rivers, island archipelagos, ...) are a plenty. Never more than a couple of hours sailing in between. As are harbours/marinas with moorings or pontoon berths.
3. I will not be anchoring 'in a chop, breeze, ... '. Why would I when there's secure shelter nearby?
4. The plan, as it stands, is that when I do plan to anchor, I assemble my anchor before I set off and mount it on the bow roller ready to deploy when I arrive at my chosen anchorage. I do not plan to spend more than a night at anchor or to leave the boat unattended for more than a couple of hours.
5. Whilst I plan to anchor in benign conditions only, I would expect my anchor to be able to cope with strong tidal currents.

I have considered stern mooring (I like a bit of 'out of the box' thinking) but I don't think it will be a viable option.
The tidal range can quite large here so I will need a fair length of chain/rode - where would it go? There is a small aft lazaret, but that's where the autopilot (hydraulic ram and RFU) and the Eberspracher live. Add to that my fenders, and there's simply no room for anything else.

This is leading toward using a Fortress FX16 with 5m of chain and either an Ankarolina 25mm webbing rode or 12mm 3 strand or octoplait. Total length of 40m or so which is OK for up to 10m depth. The Ankarolina comes on a reel which can be attached to the pulpit/pushpit - its main use is for a stern anchor and not surprisingly very popular in Scandinavia and in some parts of the Med. alternatively you could use one of these force4.co.uk/item/Force-4/Anchor-Rode-Bag/GO8 to store your rode and take it up to the bow when you need it (either with the anchor or have the anchor on chocks on the foredeck) This is what i have for my secondary anchor left over from my days in the Med where a secondary anchor off the stern is common. I have a steel Danforth rather than Fortress as not too difficult to handle off the stern and usually laid out from a dinghy.

The only downside of the Fortress is that it is less good resetting after a major change in wind or tide direction so might need manually resetting at a change of tide in your sort of use.

 

[Laminar Flow]

I can understand the OP's wisdom of wanting to keep the weight out of the fine ends of an old IOR design, even as it is approaching the better part of 40' on a nominal displacement of 12000#. Regardless, even at the lower end of requirements you'll need a decent size hook.

That said, a chain locker need not be ahead of a v-berth in the bows, but could be pretty much anywhere convenient when connected to a hawse on deck: the bottom of a locker in way of the mast, or even under a seat in the salon. Then it is just a matter of finding a home for the hook, not too far from where you expect it to be deployed.

On my family's boats, all under 30', we never had a dedicated anchor locker in the bows, never mind a chain locker. The ground tackle was kept somewhere in the bottom of a cockpit locker where you, as the youngest and apparently most expendable crew member got to to retrieve it, while hanging head-down into the bilge and hoping the locker lid would not guillotine your legs. On the way forward with a load of chain and rode in your arms on a pitching deck, the evil spirited Danforth would try to scissor off your fingers. We always anchored, by the way. In this my father taught me a lot about boating; mostly by what not to do. On my first own boat of 30', I upgraded to a chain locker in the bows and two flat anchors in chocks on the foredeck; never looked back.

Not having the hook where you need it is not the most convenient option. In an emergency, on the other hand, I would be just as happy to toss it off the stern and worry about the logistics of retrieval later.

 

[Neeves]

From the OP's 2 threads I get the distinct impression he is proud and keen on his teak decks and I suspect not very enthusiastic to drill holes in the decks to secure an anchor. Suggesting a way to secure the anchor that does not involve drilling his teak might be well received.

If sailing single handed then spinnaker work is not going to be a priority and sheets catching on wherever the anchor is stored should not be a major issue - I wonder at below the boom, immediately aft of the mast - cabin roof, lashed to the handrails. We have lashed anchors at the mast base and we made pockets or holsters out of heavy duty rubber sheet (printing blankets) to protect the gel cote from the fluke.

Storing a rode in a milk crate works well for many and with only a few metres of chain, I'd suggest more than 5m, if you cannot carry nor retrieve 15m of 8mm (even better 6mm) chain I'd worry about fitness and agility. Tape reels are common, made by the same people who make the Ultra anchors and can be supplied with a variety of tapes, dyneema and nylon being common. You would still need to add some chain. Tape reels are commonly attached on the transom and come in a variety of sizes.

'Anchoring' is not only about deployment from the bow and there are some ideas, and illustrations here:

Know how: Expanding your Anchoring Repertoire

If anchoring in locations with stronger tidal flows, and changing tides, then concave anchors like Rocna/Supreme are going to clog in stickier seabeds and may not re-set until they have washed themselves clean - I'd discount such designs and focus more strongly on a 15kg steel Spade/Excel/Kobra or 8kg aluminium Spade/Excel (but you will need deep pockets for these aluminium anchors). I'd still consider a Fortress - as if deeply set they will not easily trip in a change of tide (but maybe be difficult to retrieve if well set). I'd always suggest carrying a Fortress anyway as it offers superior hold for little weight - and can be stored assembled - flat. An FX 16 would be more than adequate and can easily and safely deployed from a dinghy.

For more imaginative ideas on where to store an anchor we would need to be able to view the deck in question - otherwise we are simply throwing out ideas at random.

Jonathan

 

[Koeketiene]

From the OP's 2 threads I get the distinct impression he is proud and keen on his teak decks and I suspect not very enthusiastic to drill holes in the decks to secure an anchor. Suggesting a way to secure the anchor that does not involve drilling his teak might be well received.

That's very observant.
I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that, but she's a pretty boat and aesthetics are an important consideration.

If sailing single handed then spinnaker work is not going to be a priority and sheets catching on wherever the anchor is stored should not be a major issue - I wonder at below the boom, immediately aft of the mast - cabin roof, lashed to the handrails. We have lashed anchors at the mast base and we made pockets or holsters out of heavy duty rubber sheet (printing blankets) to protect the gel cote from the fluke.

1. Spinnaker work is out of the question, but I do like to hoist the gennaker whenever possible.
2. Not much room aft of the mast base, under the boom. The vang/kicker and saloon hatch interfere.

For more imaginative ideas on where to store an anchor we would need to be able to view the deck in question - otherwise we are simply throwing out ideas at random.

Good point.
Couple of pictures:

Bow/fordeck





Looking aft





Transom
As you can see, it's quite narrow and leaves little room to 'work' and is the main reason I'm not keen on stern mooring.

 

[Neeves]

Beautiful looking yacht. As an owner you are obviously and rightly proud of her. I can see now why the idea of an ancho/chain locker in the conventional location, at the bow, fills you full of anguish.

I really don't see any problem with the rode, milk crate, tape reel, drum of cordage etc would be easy to locate and store - the anchor, as you have found out, will need a bit more thought.

Your original thread was on a windlass - what have you decided to do? If you instal a windlass that implies, even if located above the deck, some form of hawse pipe and you are then into a battle with the teak and aesthetics above deck and possibly the same dilemma to store the rode in the bow. Personally - I'd stick with a mixed rode, hand retrieval and simple storage - unless there is some factor (not obvious) that negates the simple (and cheap) solution. To ease medical attention to your back I'd option a mixed rode (and I'd look to downsize the chain as much as possible. Smaller chain as well as being lighter also takes up less room.

I have an idea for smaller chain - but need to find the link - bear with me.

edit

Unless you 'make it yourself' which is what we did - I cannot find 6mm high tensile galvanised chain. Larger sizes - yes - but not 6mm.

close edit

Jonathan

Just a reminder - Dyneema seems the obvious alternative to chain for an anchor rode, as a result of its strength, but it does float and you would need a snubber as it neither offers catenary nor elasticity.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Nice looking yacht and beautiful deck. I understand your dilemma.

 

[Koeketiene]

Beautiful looking yacht. As an owner you are obviously and rightly proud of her. I can see now why the idea of an ancho/chain locker in the conventional location, at the bow, fills you full of anguish.

I really don't see any problem with the rode, milk crate, tape reel, drum of cordage etc would be easy to locate and store - the anchor, as you have found out, will need a bit more thought.

Your original thread was on a windlass - what have you decided to do? If you instal a windlass that implies, even if located above the deck, some form of hawse pipe and you are then into a battle with the teak and aesthetics above deck and possibly the same dilemma to store the rode in the bow.

Well, my OP was about which anchor I should consider other than the Mantus M1.
And I think by #12 we were pretty much there.

Than the whole thing went off on a slight tangent (as these threads tend to do) and started discussing the whole anchoring set-up.
With the wealth of experience on here and an open mind I was quite happy to let it run.
Someone might come up with a better solution I had not considered.

All things considered, I think I will stick with the original plan: an electric windlass by the bow with some sort of through deck hawse pipe. The jury's still out on which windlass.
And a mixture of rode & chain.
As for anchor, I will do some more research into the Kobra and Viking (need to measure my cockpit locker).
I am still in the process of gathering quotes for what is to be this Winter's project.

All of those who have taken the time to reply have my gratitude - it's been interesting.

PS: this must be a forum first, an anchor thread that hasn't turned into a heated argument.

 

[Neeves]

There are a number of different ways to store an anchor that does not necessitate a bow roller - but leaves the anchor ready for instant, or relatively quick deployment.

I'm on the Fortress mail list and they had a mail shot today and knowing there are, I think 2, companies making brac kets for Fortress I took a look. The companies are, unsurprisingly, American and buying from America I have found to be expensive - because they seem to ship using the most expensive couriers on the planet - but it might give you ideas - and you could make your own bracket (with a bit of imagination) for any anchor. I cannot comment on these devices/designs - we store our Fortress (2 off) in our bow locker, assembled each with their own shackle (if you swap anchors about shackles are easy to lose ) - and our bigger one is a monster FX 37 for soupy mud - so its a BIG locker - no need for brackets.

Mounting - The World's Best Anchors!

One of the companies is quite big as I recall Perko also make decent nav lights - but it might be a different Perko

Jonathan