Which 35-38' AWB?

[ff_nick]

Dear All,

Have owned a Berwick for the past 21 years, shared with sister, BIL and my parents. Basically happy with the boat and very sad to see it go after so many enjoyable years and so much hard work, but my sister has three growing kids and my parents are getting to the stage in life when they're nolonger happy sailing alone, so we've decided to trade up. Boat needs to modern 2 cabin layout, big enough for four adults and 1 kid or 2 adults and 3 kids.

Budget is 60-75k tops, ready to sail, say 50-70 for the boat, with 5-10 in hand for kit, and we'd like something about 15 years younger than the Berwick, so basically a late 80's to mid 90's AWB.

To give you an idea of what we're after: this time last year we looked at a Typhoon (then too expensive) and a Sigma 41 (got scared off by potential costs), both of which we liked. Just recently seen an Etap 35i (not for sale though) which we also liked, and now there's a '91 Typhoon going for reasonable money.

My problem is I don't really know my Jenny from my Benny when it comes to AWBs. Other than racing on other people's boats, I haven't looked at another boat for 20 odd years. Raced on a Benny first-past-the-post B32 bomber thing (no idea what it was really called) and a Delher DB something and liked them both.

Does anybody have an opinion on the Etaps (35i and 38i)? Do they sail well?
Ditto the typhoon? (I've never actually sailed one)

And a short list of the 35-38' AWBs that are actually worth looking at would be really helpful, there are just so many of the things.

(PS. I don't like Bavs. I am not Bav bashing, I've seen a couple, been aboard, chartered one and I just don't like them. It's a personal asthetic thing and I don't want to spent money on one.)

 

[Sans Bateau]

As an owner of an Etap 35i, I can tell you they sail very well. However, for your requirements, number of people, I think they would be a little cramped. The Etap 35i falls between AWB (it just does not have the internal volume) and a more classic plastic boat (it looks to modern). I'd be happy for you to look at mine if you wanted. A 38i will give you more room, and a good seaworthy boat.

Its a shame that you will not consider a Bavaria, a 37 or 37 would give you good accommodation, and with your budget you could upgrade to a decent set of sails and have a boat you would enjoy.

Otherwise, I'd suggest looking at a Dehler, an older Jeanneu (spelling), ask ROBIN of this parish about them, a Moody or maybe as you have suggested a Westerly of some description.

 

[dt4134]

The Dehlers of the late eighties, early nineties are well worth looking at as good fast cruisers that are not flighty. I just had a quick scan & there are a couple in your size and price range on Apollo Duck, to give you a feel for them.

 

[Tranona]

Pity you have rejected Bavs, because you have just described my 2001 Bav 37 which is right in your budget and ticks all your boxes. A similar age 36 (2002-4) would also be in budget.

However, there are plenty of Bavs and Jennys (361 and SO35 for example) which are comparable, but not in my view such good value for money in today's market. You need to be aware that both these builders have a staid and a racy range, sometimes with similar hulls so you need to be clear which would suit you better.

BTW a Typhoon is a rather different kind of boat - older style and perhaps less spacious. Also older in years and for me age is important as condition and gear seem to vary more the older the boat.

As to drawing up a short list, it is not too difficult to put your basic parameters into the search engine on a site like Yachtworld.com to see what is available, then refine it to get a reasonable range to view. Of course with some models you will be spoilt for choice whereas others will be difficult to find. Doing a search on the Magazine sites for tests and back numbers can also be useful.

Happy hunting and if you do come round to a Bavaria let me know!

 

[hobgoblin]

Hi etaps are good but lack space. Sigmas are good but fast..... Not convinced about some of the more modern boats.....

go on a few but remember that a big stern has its advantages in the marina and dissadvantages on the sea!

 

[Marsupial]

Dear All,

Have owned a Berwick for the past 21 years, shared with sister, BIL and my parents. Basically happy with the boat and very sad to see it go after so many enjoyable years and so much hard work, but my sister has three growing kids and my parents are getting to the stage in life when they're nolonger happy sailing alone, so we've decided to trade up. Boat needs to modern 2 cabin layout, big enough for four adults and 1 kid or 2 adults and 3 kids.

Budget is 60-75k tops, ready to sail, say 50-70 for the boat, with 5-10 in hand for kit, and we'd like something about 15 years younger than the Berwick, so basically a late 80's to mid 90's AWB.

To give you an idea of what we're after: this time last year we looked at a Typhoon (then too expensive) and a Sigma 41 (got scared off by potential costs), both of which we liked. Just recently seen an Etap 35i (not for sale though) which we also liked, and now there's a '91 Typhoon going for reasonable money.

My problem is I don't really know my Jenny from my Benny when it comes to AWBs. Other than racing on other people's boats, I haven't looked at another boat for 20 odd years. Raced on a Benny first-past-the-post B32 bomber thing (no idea what it was really called) and a Delher DB something and liked them both.

Does anybody have an opinion on the Etaps (35i and 38i)? Do they sail well?
Ditto the typhoon? (I've never actually sailed one)

And a short list of the 35-38' AWBs that are actually worth looking at would be really helpful, there are just so many of the things.

(PS. I don't like Bavs. I am not Bav bashing, I've seen a couple, been aboard, chartered one and I just don't like them. It's a personal asthetic thing and I don't want to spent money on one.)

a 2000 jen 37 ticks your boxes and it's not at all bad. they are available with a variety of interior layouts, keels and sail plans.

 

[Cerddinen]

I have a Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 36.2 which is exactly in your price range and size range. I am delighted with this boat. The good points are its volume for the length, the acceptable quality of construction (the 36.2 has the bulkheads bonded to the hull/deck - later Jeanneaus and similar AWBs abandoned this - so there is none of the mastic sealing). The volume gives a separate shower, proper chart table, and a couple of real sea berths. It also has a very reassuring and steady feel when on the water. The cockpit is very large so comfortable in harbour. Drawbacks? All the flip-side of the above. It has a wide stern so will round-up in gusts if over-pressed and it does not sail with the sharpness of my previous boat (Sigma 33). But it is very manageable, perfectly usable for channel cruising and gives all the space an equipment you could want. I spent 9 months looking for a boat, viewed an example of every alternative, and have not regretted the Jeanneau for a second.

 

[jonic]

A Dufour 36 Classic would fit the bill.

The classic range is a good bridge between more traditional designs and a modern awb. The classic is a modern boat but the interiors were styled with a more traditional joinery look. There is more use of solid wood and it is of a heavier construction than today's boats. ( I almost bought a 38 Classic to replace my westerly Corsair because of this).

They are roomy down below, easy to handle and have plenty of cabin space for your crew numbers.

They perform well and are well mannered. There is a good review of a 36 classic on test in blustery conditions here

And here is one for sale within your budget. Sleeps 6 in comfort, is a 1999 model with low engine hours, new standing rigging and a new set of sails.


Pm or email me if you want any more info

 

[flaming]

A Dufour 36 Classic would fit the bill.

I would disagree there. He says he likes the Typhoon and the Sigma 41. To me this indicates a liking for performance derived hulls. Dufour 36s, whilst decent cruising boats are really not in the same league performance wise as the two examples given. (and yes, I have sailed one)

I would second the advice to look at the dehlers and also look at the Elans, the 36 from about 2000 would be within your budget now, although if you can stretch it slightly an early 37 (2004) would be an excellent choice. Similarly, the later Dehlers are excellent boats as post 2000(ish) Dehler started returning to more "normal" designs after their flirtation with some rather offbeat designs (the CWS system being a prime example).
There are also a number of Sigma 38s coming onto the market which would be a good boat for you, especially if you can find a lightly raced one with the cruising niceities already added!
If you can find an X Yacht (362 probably) in that price range, buy it. Good luck looking though!

There are also a number (a large number) of Sunsail's Sunfast 37s on the market, which would represent decent value in terms of feet/£ but have their drawbacks. PM me for what to look for on those boats...

 

[jonic]

I would disagree there. He says he likes the Typhoon and the Sigma 41. To me this indicates a liking for performance derived hulls.

Sure, but he is also switching from a Westerly Berwick and has young children and older parents so I didn't immediately think x-yacht.

I like the Sigma 38 too. Raced a couple a few times. Good boat, hard to find very good ones at the moment, but worth it if you can.

 

[dunedin]

Not many around, but Elan 36 or 362 very much worth a look

 

[Quandary]

We raced against a Dufour Classic 41 at West Highland Week in 2008, a well sailed boat, but fast enough to win our class and take top prize for the event overall. Second in the class a Fingulf 33, then a very favourably handicapped Swan 38 (the Finngulf gives it time) Fourth was a Bav. 48 also very favourably handicapped..The Dufour cleaned up and it looked good from behind, too. If the 36 is anything like as fast I would recommend it. A big jump from a Westerly to an X Yacht the Dufour surely would be a better compromise and they are a lot cheaper.
Mind you, a well looked after Sigma 38 would be even better and keep its value well, there are still some around which have not been raced too hard.

 

[Sans Bateau]

There are also a number of Sigma 38s coming onto the market which would be a good boat for you, especially if you can find a lightly raced one with the cruising niceities already added!
If you can find an X Yacht (362 probably) in that price range, buy it. Good luck looking though!

There are also a number (a large number) of Sunsail's Sunfast 37s on the market, which would represent decent value in terms of feet/£ but have their drawbacks. PM me for what to look for on those boats...

Sorry but I think you are wrong in suggesting one of these boats, they are more than likely going to be hammered, I mean how old is a Sigma 38 going to be, how many hard races? Same with a X362, and as for Sunsail fleet boats, chartered, raced, sail school. Would like be buying an ex hire car from 'rent-a-wreck'.

There are still enough good fast cruisers around to look at.

 

[photodog]

See.. in that price bracket... and at that size... excluding Bavarias strikes me as just bizarre... Undoubtedly a 1999 or 2000 3 cabin Bavaria 34 would hit the money bang on the head... German Lloyds certified... decent rig... lots of space... sensible layout...

Dufour 36 classic... nice boat.. but not at 50-60k... and its a bloater compared to the Bav...

Bene 362 Not as quick...

Sigma 362... getting a bit old.

Elan 36/362... rare.. often raced... some build a bit light imo.

Starlight 35... too expensive.

Dufour 35 classic.. nice boat if you can find a good one... right price .

Sigma 38.... you need a army.

Typhoon... Bloody hell... time warp again.

Hanse might be worth looking at... might get a 341 in there... but I dont think they did a 3 cabin..so might be a bit small

Moody 346 would be a good bet... but getting a bit long in tooth.

Jen 362 would be good... sail fairly well... nice boat if you can find a good one.



But really top choices for me with that spec would be;

Bavaria 34 (1999/2000)
Sigma 362
Elan 362
Dufour 35 Classic
Starlight 35 if you can stretch an extra 10k.

But really , not including late 90's early noughties Bavarias is a bit silly... for that money you could get a very good 2001 Bavaria 37... and thats a nice boat with oodles of space... or a absolute peach of a 34...

 

[fireball]

Another one on the Bav side - a 34 or 37 from 1999 to early 2001 would fit your needs - easy access, nice to sail and easy to maintain - did the ones you tried have the original sails? Far better with a new set ... the supplied ones are known to be cr4p.

Other options would include the Jen SO 34 .. plenty of other AWB's that fit your criteria ...

 

[Twister_Ken]

Look, gents, the man has said he doesn't like Bavarias, so why try and stuff them down his throat?

He's right, too.

 

[ff_nick]

Many thanks for your input so far.

We saw an Etap 35i which belongs to a colleague of my BIL on New years day. Everybody liked the purposeful styling, it looked like it should sail properly, was decently screwed together and we agreed that the accommodation was adequate at least. Should be able to sail it, but not until spring.

We did what Tranona suggested and searched Yacht World, skipped the Bavs, scratched our heads over the Beneteaus then got bored and moved on to the Dehlers. Sister, SWMBO and me all very impressed with various 37 and 38 footers. Liked the shape, the interiors, the deck gear. We figured out the cws models are the ones with a winch in the middle of the cockpit. Lots of those for sale. Does it work? Or is it just a gimmick? Anybody any suggestions for which specific models to look at and which to avoid.?
Haven't got to Dufour or Jenny yet (alphabetical list, a long one!), but will do so at the weekend.

I should perhaps have mentioned that 3 of us (me, my sister and my father) have raced regularly, so a performance orientated boat would be nice, though not essential.

 

[ff_nick]

Another one on the Bav side - a 34 or 37 from 1999 to early 2001 would fit your needs - easy access, nice to sail and easy to maintain - did the ones you tried have the original sails? Far better with a new set ... the supplied ones are known to be cr4p.

Didn't mean to start a Anglo-franco-bavarian war here. I've only ever sailed one Bav, a fortnights charter out of Odensee. That was 1998, so the boat would have been a few years older. 39 footer I think, and yes the sails were ****.

Bavs just don't check the feel-good box for me. Bit like meeting a fat woman with little tits - I don't care how capable she is, if she's got a Phd in astrophysics and her Yachtmaster ocean, I still don't want her. What's more I am sure SWMBO feels the same and I think my sister and father do too. Snobbery, pride call it what you like.

 

[30boat]

Another one on the Bav side - a 34 or 37 from 1999 to early 2001 would fit your needs - easy access, nice to sail and easy to maintain - did the ones you tried have the original sails? Far better with a new set ... the supplied ones are known to be cr4p.

Didn't mean to start a Anglo-franco-bavarian war here. I've only ever sailed one Bav, a fortnights charter out of Odensee. That was 1998, so the boat would have been a few years older. 39 footer I think, and yes the sails were ****.

Bavs just don't check the feel-good box for me. Bit like meeting a fat woman with little tits - I don't care how capable she is, if she's got a Phd in astrophysics and her Yachtmaster ocean, I still don't want her. What's more I am sure SWMBO feels the same and I think my sister and father do too. Snobbery, pride call it what you like.

So they're all against the little tits thing?

 

[shaunksb]

Hi there

When we first looked we had a similar set of requirements to you and looked at several boats around the 37' mark. However we ended up with a slightly smaller boat - a jenneau 34.2 (mentioned above) initially as a stopgap. These (and the rarer 36.2) seem to be built reasonably well and we have found it to be an ideal size for 4 cruising or another if you drop the saloon table. 10m is also a manageable size to single hand if you wish.

The point is you would then expect to get an even younger boat. 50-60k should get you a 2000 - 2002 model with all the bits and the taller mast.

Instead of trading up we have spent some money on a folding prop and a spinniker to improve her speed. However she was designed just before some of the really wide bottomed boats and sails quite well. The Byron handicap page gives her a PN of 947 which is ok for a cruiser of this size - http://www.byronsoftware.org.uk/bycn/byboat.htm - (check out other contenders here also)