Where to start?

[White_Horse]

Hi folks, new to the forum, so apologies if this sort of thread crops up a lot.

I am wanting to get into sailing, but unfortunately have very little experience with boats, only having operated a few small motor fishing boats and the like. I am planning on taking a course at a nearby marina to learn the basics of sailing, but after doing a little research on the internet, I am still uncertain on the rules, regulations and legal requirements (for the UK) on boat sailing and ownership. So, I was wondering if any of the members here would be good enough to list the steps I would have to take if I was planning on purchasing a yacht or catamaran, which would also be used for international travel.

Many thanks.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Hello White Horse and welcome to the forums. There are very few (if any) regulations pertaining to boat buying and sailing in the uk. You can go out and buy any boat you want (within reason) and just go sailing. The system works because nearly everyone is sensible and either learns seamanship and boat handling etc from friends and relatives or goes on some courses run by a sailing school.

The standard advice to newcomers is to join a local yacht club and ask if anyone wants some crew. The only caveat to this advice is to bear in mind that very occasionally you can end up crewing for the boat owner and skipper that nobody else wants to crew for. Just occasionally you find that the mind mannered pleasant person you meet in the bar turns into Captain Bligh as soon as they step in their boat. If it happens just remember to learn from it and never be like it yourself when you are in charge. Mostly you end up making friends and learning lots and all for free.

When it comes to owning your own boat and if you start visiting marinas you will be expected to have some insurance. No one will ask to see it but it's probably sensible anyway as you can end up getting close to multi million pound boats and the consequences if an accident don't bear thinking about. When you eventually start going international, then a few regulations come along. In theory you need some sort of certification to say you are competent and the boat has to be Part 1 or Part 2 registered. (Part 2 is the Small Ships Registration and is cheap and easy but needs renewing every five years. I've never been asked to show a certificate of competence but I have been asked to produce passports and the boat registration and the consequences of not having the correct paperwork are extreme so don't take any liberties. Hopefully that's enough to get you going.

The one thing you do have to know (and comply with) when you take your own boat out are the International Rules for the Prevention of Collisions at Sea. The basic rules are fairly simple and there are lots of books that you can choose from that will walk you through them.

 

[White_Horse]

Thanks for the reply.

How much is it to register a boat in the UK? Also, Is boat insurance similar to car insurance in the way of it being very expensive when you first purchase a boat, then comes down in time? Or is it a kind of standard rate for all? What would the average cost of insurance be on say a 8m catamaran for example?

 

[Tranona]

Thanks for the reply.

How much is it to register a boat in the UK? Also, Is boat insurance similar to car insurance in the way of it being very expensive when you first purchase a boat, then comes down in time? Or is it a kind of standard rate for all? What would the average cost of insurance be on say a 8m catamaran for example?

If you want to register the boat, the Small Ships Register is £25 for 5 years. That only confirms the boat is British for when you go abroad. Not compulsory in UK. The full register which is also a register of title (ownership) is more expensive for the 5 years but there are also significant initial registration costs or transfer costs if it is already registered.

Insurance is relatively cheap. again not compulsory. Third party is usually very easy and cheap. insurance on the boat itself depends on its value, where it is kept and how you intend using it. Approx 1% of value would be a good guide for a lowish value boat for a full policy.

Suggest you buy the book published by the RYA on buying and owning a boat. Will answer most of your questions. www.rya.org

 

[White_Horse]

Thanks for that, I'll have a look.

 

[sailorman]

where are you based

 

[simonfraser]

i started with a 7m hirondelle, easier to handle than an 8m cat alac.

 

[Ripster]

Best advice really is to join a local club and get out with a crew to start to experience what its all about. Perhaps do some racing and see how you like that. Just be very honest about being a green-horn and generally the crew will act accordingly and teach you. Once you start to get some experience, you'll begin to understand better what your boat should have in terms of kit, capability, accommodation etc. As and when you feel ready to get your own boat, this will give at least a head start on choice. Above all don't forget to enjoy it!

 

[White_Horse]

Thanks for the advice folks.

I'm in county Durham sailorman.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Thanks for the advice folks.

I'm in county Durham sailorman.

And whereabouts in County Durham? I only ask because I used to hail from there.

 

[White_Horse]

And whereabouts in County Durham? I only ask because I used to hail from there.

Just north of Darlington mate.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Just north of Darlington mate.

White Horse, Harrogate Hill? Coatham Munderville? Newton Aycliffe? Ferryhill?

 

[White_Horse]

Newton Aycliffe.

 

[prv]

Just as an example since you asked about insurance costs - Basic Boat Insurance (that's the company name) charge £80 a year for third-party only for a boat staying within 12 miles of the coast. Add a tenner if you end up with a fast motorboat that can do over 17 knots. It's cheaper than car insurance because, although it's not that hard to cause a few grand's worth of damage to someone else's boat by cocking up your mooring manoeuvres (and that's why you really should have it), it's practically impossible to cause the kind of injuries you would in a car pileup and that's what costs the insurers real money.

As a beginner sailing off County Durham, sheer geography means you're not going to be going foreign any time soon. So you don't need any registration at all for the boat, though if you want to see your name on a certificate you can hand over your £25 if you like.

You should really have a VHF radio for anything bigger than a dinghy (and perhaps even then, I haven't sailed a dinghy seriously for twenty years and I don't know what's normal nowadays). This needs a license, but fortunately they stopped charging for it a few years ago and it's available free online. To then use the radio for anything except emergencies, you need an operator's certificate. This involves doing a course, and unfortunately for you they've just this year made it longer and probably more expensive (the certificate is valid internationally, and the Germans were complaining that the UK made it too easy to get). I think mine cost about £80 a few years ago, not sure about current costs. If money is tight then in practice you needn't rush to get this - you can always call marinas etc on a mobile if necessary - but I reckon a radio in receive mode is worth it from the get-go to be able to hear what's going on around you.

The final major chunk of rules is the Collision Regulations - the maritime equivalent of the highway code. They are UK law, they all apply to you as soon as you set off on tidal waters. You can get by without learning the whole lot (just like you probably don't know what the legal overhang length on a trailer is on the road) but you need to know the basics of when you have to hold your course so that someone else can go round you, and when you are the one who has to go round - just like on the road you need to know that you drive on the left and give way to cars already on the roundabout. The official UK version of the rules is this: http://www.collisionregs.com/MSN1781.pdf (actual rules start on page 4) - I like to refer to the original text as some "explanations" can be a bit dodgy, but as a complete beginner you may find a "softer" explanation easier to learn.

There's a few other odds and sods of law applying to leisure vessels, but it's mostly common-sense stuff like not sending false distress signals or dumping rubbish into the sea. Specifically, you do not need any kind of license to privately operate any boat you're likely to buy.

By and large, leisure sailing is still fairly free of regulation. The way to keep it that way is for us all to behave responsibly and not make it look like regulation is needed, so if you don't know anything about boats you should really learn the basics before going out on your own. One way is to join a club as others have suggested, and that's pretty good if it works out. Another option is to do a course with an RYA school. If you've never sailed before then the Competent Crew course is the one to go for, and will involve five days living on a boat and learning to sail it.

Pete

 

[White_Horse]

Cheers for the info there pete. Lots I wasn't aware of.:encouragement:

 

[Robert Wilson]

Newton Aycliffe.

Thanks. Good to hear of folk from the "old country"

Good luck with all your sailing, keep in touch with these fora - they have been an enormous source of information, help, mirth and general chat to me and can't think of a better way of sorting problems, meeting-up and enjoying all things boat, and LOUNGE of course!

Keep in touch.
Robert

P.S. Just to add to prv's post above, although it's free to sail your own boat, and take friends, crew or whoever for recreational trips, you are not allowed to charge people for the pleasure i.e. you can't charter, "make a few bucks" or operate a business without various licences, insurances and probably other restrictions (of which I admit I am ignorant) - but you probably won't be in a position to do that for a while yet!

 

[White_Horse]

Thanks mate.

You wouldn't happen to have any old mates in the area who would be willing to show me how to start by any chance?

 

[Kwik Decision]

You're not that far from Tees & Hartlepool YC, located in Hartlepool. A few years ago they were a reasonably active club, with racing on most Sundays, and Wed evenings in the summer, as well as cruising and long distance raceing. They cater for both dinghys and yachts, and new members certainly used to be made welcome, with offers of crew positions etc. I sailed a lot from there (on other people's boats) until moving down south and buying a boat in 2007.

 

[White_Horse]

You're not that far from Tees & Hartlepool YC, located in Hartlepool. A few years ago they were a reasonably active club, with racing on most Sundays, and Wed evenings in the summer, as well as cruising and long distance raceing. They cater for both dinghys and yachts, and new members certainly used to be made welcome, with offers of crew positions etc. I sailed a lot from there (on other people's boats) until moving down south and buying a boat in 2007.

I have been looking at the local services and clubs for sailing with the aim of joining a club, but as it won't be that long until summer is over.. I thought it may be best holding off until next spring before getting a membership somewhere. Looking at the Hartlepool yacht clubs website, they only seem to have the price for a family annual membership.. do you know how much they charge roughly for single or double memberships?

 

[LadyInBed]

You will also need to learn how to navigate, RYA run evening classes, many books on the subject and online basic instruction. I haven't got a link to hand, but will post it if noone else does.

Link: http://www.sailingissues.com/navcourse0.html