Where to start planning a blue water cruise?

[seanfoster]

(I've posted this in Scuttlebutt too)
I've been sailing for a fair few years, never been too far, but after dreaming about a blue water cruise for years, I've decided I'm going to get off my backside and do it! Very lucky that my girlfriend is more than enthusiastic about it too, so it's time to start planning for the trip, hopefully to commence in 3-4 years time.

So in that time we have to (in no particular order)
Buy a suitable boat - (I'm thinking 36-38 ft boat probably around 10-15 yrs old)
Get some miles under our belts
Get our yachtmasters
Learn a lot, probably make a lot of mistakes, save up enough money to leave our jobs for a year or so.

No doubt I'm being naive about a number of things, but I have to start somewhere, can anyone advise me of good websites/books/forums which have lots of useful information for this?

Can anyone recommend suitable boats (I'm looking to spend around £40k)

Any help and advice would be appreciated!

 

[Roaring Girl]

Hi there - and welcome to the dream! there'll be lots of comments, but here's a tuppence starter:

(i) some books - Sell Up & Sail - Bill & Laurel Cooper; Cost Conscious Cruiser - Lyn 7 larry pardey; Voyaging on a Low Income - Annie Hill; several books by Beth Leonard.
(ii) do you own a boat now? This would help give some shape to what sort of boat you want. Also key - where do you wish to go and what sort of sailing do you wish to do? Through the canals to the Med, a dash to Turkey and then coast hopping is a very different need from a circumnavigation. You have some experience, which will help; are you planning on a boat just the two of you can handle? You might decide to buy elsewhere than the UK, especially if it means, for instance, the boat is already where you want to be, but be aware of VAT issues if you buy outside the EU. Without knowing where you want to go, it is difficult to recommend a boat. £40K will mean older but possibly sturdier. £50-£55K will get you a good 40' blue water boat (I know one for sale, not ours!) If you buy one that is not live-aboard ready, including good anchoring tackle, you will need to budget for that kit.
(iii) whatever you get, someone here will tell you what's wrong and right about it. There will be lots of fitting out and personalisation to do, and that;s part of the fun. If you are going to live on board for 1-2 years and then not live on board, there are some different decisions from only summers, or living aboard for years. (Eg, we planned to and did live aboard 365/365 for 3 years in the UK. For us, really good insulation was a high priority and one of the first things we did. Much less important if you intend only t live aboard in warmer places!)
(iv) - cat amongst pigeons, but if you have the experience you do not actually need a YM qualification. It is useful to have your ICC, but if you have coastal skipper, the RYA will send you one automatically. Good First Aid, Survival at Sea and radio operator quals are much more useful (IMHO).
(v) how much you need to live on is pretty vexed but there's been some good threads on here recently about that; it partly depends on your own technical expertise. Anything from £700pcm to £2500 pcm!

But ask away - there'll be lots of answers and views.

 

[seanfoster]

Pip & Sarah, thanks for your reply, the main reason I was thinking of doing the yacht master was so my girlfriend (Angie) could get a good understanding (doing dayskipper first which I have) and also we could do it together, but I agree with you that it is experience that counts!

I was looking at a sunbeam 36 which is fully kitted out (going at the mo just short of £40K) which looks like an ideal boat, unfortunately it's the wrong time to buy for me (just about to give up work to go back to full time study for a year and I already have a 26ft boat!)

Crusing range, well first I thought a few trips across the bay of biscay, on to the canaries, keep the boat there for a few months or a year and then on to the Carribean, then back, have a rest for a 6 months or a year then through the french canals heading towards Greek islands, Turkey. Certainly plans are not in stone and discussions over the next year or two will help decide.

Lots to learn and discover!

 

[Sandyman]

Lots to learn and discover!

Indeed there is Sean and its great fun doing so.

Pip & Sarah hit the nail on the head when they mention technical expertise.
It will save you a small fortune if you are able to do your own maintenance, both mechanical & electrical. Well worth doing a few courses if you dont have such skills.

Most of all.....................enjoy

 

[Tranona]

Just a couple of observations on the boat front. £40 will not get you much. If the Sunbeam is the one I looked at, it is typical of the worn out 25+ year old boat which although it has all the right kit, everything is old or obsolete. My back of the fag packet got up to £25k to bring it up to scratch. Of course it would make a nice boat, but not at £40K plus refurbishment!

You do have a big choice in the £30k purchase range - Warriors, Moodys, Westerlys, Countess etc of the popular boats and many other short run or home built/finished, but you find huge variations in condition and kit so you need to be prepared for lots of work expense.

In addition to all the reading you have been given, suggest you spend lots of time looking at boats to get a really good handle on what is on offer, so that when you are in a position to buy, you know what to look for.

Enjoy!

 

[tobble]

when I first started thinking/dreaming about going cruising (have been living aboard in the UK for 4 years) one of the long term cruisers I chatted to made an excellent point; the boat is only one part of the whole thing. of course it's important but don't get too bogged down with that bit. there are lots of other questions some of which you are asking already. a lot of the answers, as suggested above already, will place constraints on the choice of boat, which is probably a better way round to be, rather than choosing a boat than then constrains options that you find you want. There wil of course alway be a degree of this but you can minimise it by thinking ahead carefully.

I'll also add to the reading list: Bernard Mortissier. I've also found a few accounts rather than a reference style book are really informative and more fun to read. Try 'Maiden Voyage' by Tanya Abei (s.p?) and Josh Slocum.

 

[TQA]

I did much the same a few years ago living on less than some peoples bar bill. Get good SIMPLE kit that you can fix yourself, live on the hook, sail everywhere and learn to slow down. Look for a boat with BIG water tanks, in the Caribbean esp. water is luxury, OR go the watermaker route BUT be aware of the need for continous maintenance.

Here is a good book - Cost Conscious Cruiser by Lin and Larry Pardey

Lots of good boats out there, people even do it in BendySuns with spade rudders and no backstays. Here is an alternative thought, go to France for a steel boat, Tilles is one manufacturer of hulls for home completion. There is a 42 footer at your budget on offer just now. You will see these everywhere in the world where the blue water cruisers stop. [ Although they prefer the French speaking bits]. Yes maintenance is a pain but if you are living aboard it is doable and cheap. Just keep painting! They are not pretty boats but steel is STRONG! I had a steel boat and was very glad of it on a couple of occaisons. If you buy one that needs repainting, wait till you get to Venuzuela and it will be really cheap to have it sand blasted and epoxyed in DRY conditions.

A big decision that you need to make is are you going out to see lots of sea, i.e. do the Atlantic circuit in a year OR are you going to visit lots of interesting places moving your floating cottage every week or so. I was in the latter class.

The Atlantic coast of Spain and Portugal is a great cruising area that lots of cruisers pass by.

 

[jonic]

Good luck with your trip.

We have been cruising on and off since 2002 and even had two kids along the way. None of it has quite gone to plan, but we have a saying now "Just because it isn't going to plan, doesn't mean it is isn't going to THE plan."

It has been a tremendous experience and we have seen some of the most beautiful and interesting places in the world, but without doubt one of the high points has been the other people we have met. The Bluewater tribe are a very generous and helpful bunch.

Our website at http://www.theyachtmoonshine.com covers the whole trip to date.

As for books, look through the great sailing stories and essential cruising books categories here http://astore.amazon.co.uk/latestnewsfro-21 The John Ridgeway and Moitessier books I found particularly inspiring, and of course you must get Nigel Calder.

Yacht Master though not essential can only be a good thing and will give a great grounding to start learning the cruising way.


Boatwise 40k is a little on the low side and as some have said you'll probably find a very tired boat with lots of tired equipment, however you have to to sift through them and they do come up. A GOOD one off or small steel boat may be the answer here.

Otherwise I would look for something like a good Westerly or Moody with no Bluewater kit and then fit good simple kit your self.

If going offshore for long distances the list is endless but a good wind generator and a solar panel really should be at the top.

Water tankage is very important and if you can afford it and want to maintain it a watermaker is a real luxury. But you can also make a simple raincatcher which in a tropical downpour will fill your tanks in no time.

An SSB is probably not as essential as it was. A simple receiver and a second-hand iridium sat phone would cover most things.

A wind steering system will take a huge amount of strain off your batteries and probably be more reliable.

Epirbs are better and cheaper than they ever were.

Take a spare alternator, water pump and lots of filters, belts and impellers.

Have a look at my brokerage site below and leave your details and I'll keep an eye out for you. I found forumite Johnny H his boat and he's now almost in Aus. He's got a good site at http://www.freewebs.com/jksailing/usefullinks.htm.

The main thing though is just to go and enjoy.

 

[mixmaster]

Have to agree on the comments ragarding the technical expertise. Not just a question of money. Some places you can't get the help or it is very slow. Plumbing, engine, electrical, sail repair, steering system, rigging and your own maintenance... You may be happy to pay someone to do some or all of it (I am happy to farm out some for example) but there'll be a time when you'll need to be self reliant.
For your partner, the traditional Yachmaster style sailing skills are important but augmented as well. My wife knows more about anchors than your average YMaster but can't race trim a main sail to save her life...

 

[seanfoster]

Thanks everyone for your replies and useful advice.
It's given me a lot to go on, I'm not in a position to buy a boat at the moment, I'm planning to buy in about 2-3 years, and then another year or so to get her up to a suitabkle standard.

No doubt I'll be asking lots of questions in the near future, but I've certainly got a lot to go on for now!

 

[estarzinger]

We were in your shoes about 15 years ago. Working in Stockholm and wanted to go cruising. We basically knew nothing.

We (my wife & I together) took a three week instruction fom the Hamble to Scillies and back, then a 2 week instruction in the Carribean. We learned a lot in the UK course and not so much in the Carribean but did enjoy the sun.

Then we bought a 37' boat.

Then about 2 months later we set off to sail around the world.

We made it, enjoyed it, and have since done it again.

It really takes more attitude (open and willing to learn but unwilling to quit) than skill or knowledge. If you want to study anything I would focus on weather, diesels and electricity. The sailing part is a doodle.

Lots of info on our website.

 

[ironmaiden]

estarzinger has got it right.. it all about attitude. I find it quite amusing that many people think that you have to have huge sums of money to be able to cruise or even complete a round the globe'r, you can do it in a boat for far less then 40k. my partner Natalie and I ( yes, a couple of girlies) are in the process of building our own livaboard boat, a 33ft steel riptide, which we are doing from scratch, hull n all, and it's not costing us anything like 40k and thats using all new stuff.
When "simunye" is completed we will have a boat that is built exactly to the spec we want, and we will know every inch of her, we will be able to carry out all of our own repairs. infact when I think about it 40k would actually cover the cost of the boat and 2 to 3 years full time cruising.
Might I suggest thinking about opting out of the land based conditionalized consumer way of thinking, try reading shane actons "shrimpy" and Annie Hills "voyaging on a small income" they might just make you look at the wider picture.
All you need is a good simple boat (and that does'nt mean expensive), and a good pair of walking boots....................................to explore the land falls that you reach.

good luck and go for it.
rachel.

 

[KellysEye]

>steel boat... If you buy one that needs repainting, wait till you get to Venuzuela and it will be really cheap to have it sand blasted and epoxyed in DRY conditions.

Unfortunately that is no longer the case. Venezuela was undercutting Trinidad. Trinidad sent a delegation of boat yard people to talk to the Venezuelans, pointing out that there was enough work for everyone and Venezuela should increase their prices. They have.

Although both are cheaper than Europe/USA, they are similar prices that are no longer cheap. The only benefit in Venezuela is they don't have Trinidad's 'the best energy saver today is tomorrow' attitude, they generally work hard and quickly.

 

[HinewaisMan]

Sean,

Since you have more activity here than the other forum, thought we'd post here this time.

Jean's just suggested you should also try and track down any CD's you can by a lady called Eileen Quinn - a bluewater liveaboard and folksinger. She catches the cruising life so well with her lyrics - I cried over her tale of loosing her dinghy.

We were given a pair of her albums as a birthday pressie by a South African couple in Darwin - a grand gift. I see she's done 5 CD's in all.

Her website's http://www.eileenquinn.com. Lifting a few words as a taster from the site....

Friends (from "Not To Be Used For Navigation")

I'm counting up what I've got to show for all these years afloat
a dog eared passport, a weathered face, a tired old boat
a yarn or two that might be true and a couple of battle scars
days of sparkling waters, nights of falling stars

I've got seashells, I've got souvenirs, I've got songs I've penned
I've got phographs, I've got memories, but mostly I've got friends

Best

Peter