Where to secure anchor chain.

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nickfabbri

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When at anchor is it really bad/dangerous/foolish practice to only secure the anchor chain on the windlass gypsy?
The installation I am doing only allows the windlass to be placed in one spot as there are reinforcement plates glassed into the anchor locker.
But in all the installations i have seen, the chain just sits on the gypsy with no other way of securing it, unless the anchor pin on the bow roller needs to be used.
All help gratefully received.
 
nickfabbri said:
When at anchor is it really bad/dangerous/foolish practice to only secure the anchor chain on the windlass gypsy?
The installation I am doing only allows the windlass to be placed in one spot as there are reinforcement plates glassed into the anchor locker.
But in all the installations i have seen, the chain just sits on the gypsy with no other way of securing it, unless the anchor pin on the bow roller needs to be used.
All help gratefully received.
Click to expand...

Use a mooring warp, a rolling hitch and 2 cleats to bridle it.
 
get a chain hook and several meters of suitable warp. when anchored, put the hook on the chain and let out about another 2m of chain. Then secure the warp to a suitable cleat an let out a bit more chain so the load is on the warp.

Apart from taking the strain off the windlass,the warp will help to lessen shock loads.
 
nickfabbri said:
When at anchor is it really bad/dangerous/foolish practice to only secure the anchor chain on the windlass gypsy?
The installation I am doing only allows the windlass to be placed in one spot as there are reinforcement plates glassed into the anchor locker.
But in all the installations i have seen, the chain just sits on the gypsy with no other way of securing it, unless the anchor pin on the bow roller needs to be used.
All help gratefully received.
Click to expand...

I doubt the anchor retaining pin is strong enough to hold in a blow without deforming leading to a potentially stuck pin..

Can't you just set the anchor, and take the chain off the gypsy (if you use the windlass to lower the anchor - I usually don't) and make off on a cleat?

I use a snubber made of a length of warp with a chain hook to secure the chain to the boat's forward cleats (chain on one, snubber on the other) then allow the chain to be slack between the chain hook and the roller and make off onto a cleat. Quiet, simple to handle and reliable.
 
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The windlass itself is not designed for large snatch loads and you should transfer the load to a secure place on deck once the anchor is set. Best is to leave the chain in place on the windlass ready for lifting when required, but transfer the load with a nylon (it is stretchy) line from the chain to a bow cleat. I use a 3 strand nylon snubber line like this with a S/S chain hook spiced in one end and an additional stretch rubber mooring compensator wound into it. Hook the line onto the chain between links just over the bow roller, then lower more chain keeping light tension on the line until it is well clear, then cleat off the line and lower yet more chain until it hangs in a big loop under the line. The load is now on the line, the chain weight keeps the hook in place, the combination of nylon line and rubber compensator absorb any snatch and the load is no longer on the windlass. Seemples!
 
What they said. You must snub your anchor rode. It's totally simple and takes less than a minute -- just attach your snubber to your chain with a rolling hitch, cleat off, and let out more chain until the snubber is carrying the load.

One quibble: I would not agree with the suggestion to use a bridle. It's an unecessary complication and will exacerbate any tendency of your boat to dance at anchor. Your boat will lie better to her anchor at a slight angle to the wind. Simply cleat the snubber off to one bow cleat or the other and she will lie slightly off the wind, which is just what you want.

Another small quibble: Why does anyone use a chain hook on a snubber? I have never been able to understand this. If unloaded it can fall out. A rolling hitch takes just a second to tie, and is completely secure. And costs nothing, to boot.
 
some sort of snubber best be used if there isn't enough scope on the anchor chain/warp.
Best to use as much chain as poss' to act as the absorber between anchor and fixed position on boat then you are less reliant upon snubbers, warps etc.
In seriously bad conditions.....?????? cripes I've got involved in an anchor blog!!!
 
Dockhead said:
What they said. You must snub your anchor rode. It's totally simple and takes less than a minute -- just attach your snubber to your chain with a rolling hitch, cleat off, and let out more chain until the snubber is carrying the load.

One quibble: I would not agree with the suggestion to use a bridle. It's an unecessary complication and will exacerbate any tendency of your boat to dance at anchor. Your boat will lie better to her anchor at a slight angle to the wind. Simply cleat the snubber off to one bow cleat or the other and she will lie slightly off the wind, which is just what you want.

Another small quibble: Why does anyone use a chain hook on a snubber? I have never been able to understand this. If unloaded it can fall out. A rolling hitch takes just a second to tie, and is completely secure. And costs nothing, to boot.
Click to expand...
Take your point regarding rolling hitches - except that our chain hook has never ever fallen off the anchor chain... I might argue that the hook is even quicker and easier to put on than a rolling hitch.
 
A snubber, whether you use a chain hook or rolling hitch, is essential to stop the chain grinding in the bow roller and keeping you awake and to reduce snatching. (Personally, I prefer the rolling hitch because it's more secure than a chain hook).
However, the snubber should not be the ultimate holding point for the chain, particularly if you use something as insecure as a chain hook. You need to secure the chain on a cleat, a sampson post or a ratchet claw of some sort, then attach the snubber. If the snubber detaches or breaks the load should not come directly onto the windlass.
The bitter end is the ultimate termination point and this should always be a length of nylon attached to a strong point in the anchor locker. If the snubber breaks and the chain is not secured and runs out completely it is the bitter end that will take the load and keep you attached to the anchor. A chain running out at speed will put a tremendous load on the bitter end attachment point so it needs to be really strong and able to absorb shock. If there is nothing obvious to secure to, a 4 x 4 baulk of timber long enough that it can't get through the hawse pipe is a good solution. The nylon line portion should be quite long to absorb shock but at least long enough to be brought onto deck to be cut if you ever need to abandon your anchor to escape a dodgy anchorage.
All in my humble opinion, of course.
 
rhumlady said:
The weight of chain on the chain hook keeps the hook in place.
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Unless you start pitching in a swell.

Why would you even risk it? For what benefit?

In my opinion snubber hooks were invented by the marine industry purely to have another gadget to sell, not because of any real need.
 
We have always used a chain hook on 3 metres of warp. It has fallen off occasionally but I check it regularly anyway, so it is not an issue.

My normal practice is to cleats it off to one side of the bow. Wecdo experience a fair amount swinging about at anchor. Do you think this would be reduced by leading the strop back through the bow roller, thus getting a more central pull? Or, is the swinging more a factor caused by hull shape or something else?

Thanks.
 
QUOTE Can't you just set the anchor, and take the chain off the gypsy (if you use the windlass to lower the anchor - I usually don't) and make off on a cleat? UNQUOTE

ERRRR the above is a really bad idea. In the event of a sudden big blow and the anchor dragging; the additional complications in getting the chain back onto the gypsy and off the cleat under load are considerable . There are several reported incidents of crushed fingers doing this.

Use a snubber and leave the chain on the gypsy.

I anchor 95+% of the time and have always used a hook. I can not recall a single incident of it falling off. However I have seen someone really struggle to undo their rolling hitch and eventually resorting to the breadknife.
 
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We once had the gypsy split in half on the end of a swinging snatch in Bayona Spain,a few years ago.
Lucky we were on board ,the sound of 70 metres of chain rumbling out over the roller was quite alarming. We rushed forward both jumping on the chain before it all dissapeared over the bow.
Now it always has a snubbing line tied back to the Samson post with a rolling hitch to the chain.
A guy in the local engineering shop welded the gypsy Cast iron? back together !
Still Ok % yrs on.
The Hanses arent that well equiped with Samson posts but I expect one of the bow cleats should cope Nick.
Cindy
 
Dockhead said:
Unless you start pitching in a swell.

Why would you even risk it? For what benefit?

In my opinion snubber hooks were invented by the marine industry purely to have another gadget to sell, not because of any real need.
Click to expand...

Well in nearly 40 years I've never had one fall off the chain once it was set up. It might happen occasionally as the snubber is first being deployed but not if a light tension is kept on the line until the weight of the chain loop takes over. I have seen boats with too little slack chain let out when the snubber is set, in that case yes heavy pitching could dislodge it but that is operator error in my book.

Keep your rolling hitch method by all means but do keep a sharp knife handy, because one day (or night) you may need it in a hurry. The combination of a wet line and hefty snatch loads should pull that knot nice and tight.
 
I've never had the rolling hitch bind but I've had a chain hook fall off several times and many people I've spoken to on this issue have had the same problem. I know some who use a shackle.

Whatever the individual experiences on snubbers might be, the OP's question was where to secure the anchor chain and I think that is a more interesting and important question. Some take a loop round a cleat, some take a turn around the whole windlass, some use a ratchet chain stopper, some just use the locked gypsy. I would say the latter is the most prevalent but surely a risky practice.

I've used a chain stopper and felt very confident with it. On a larger boat I've taken the chain around a pair of sampson post and felt secure. On AWBs I've taken a turn around the bow cleats and felt it was dubious practice and that AWBs seem to be more set up for nylon rather than chain rode.

On my own boats I've always made sure that the bitter end was well designed and secure, and kept my rode to a reasonable length - with additional lengths of chain available for the odd very deep anchorage. Typically 150' of chain for the Bahamas and Caribbean with 80' to 120' typically deployed. That way in the event of my snubber failing and the windlass clutch slipping the bitter end is not an unreasonable fall back position. It's never come to that, though, since I started using a rolling hitch on my snubber.
 
The question of where to secure the chain is what led to the snubber line discussions because not many boats these days have sampson posts. As mentioned also, putting chain on a cleat isn't a good idea and personally I wouldn't want to wrap it round the windlass either, so the optimum idea is a rope snubber to transfer the load to a deck cleat. On my boats the bitter end has always been tied off to a fitting in the chain locker bulkhead with a line long enough to allow the chain end to come on deck if need be to have an extra length of warp added when required.

There are anchor chain shackles and chain snap shackles with locking pins available (Wichard do both) as alternatives, but I've always been happy with a proper chain hook of the correct size for the chain.

This is always going to be a personal choice question, but the important point I think is not to leave the chain loads directly on the windlass.
 
TQA said:
QUOTE Can't you just set the anchor, and take the chain off the gypsy (if you use the windlass to lower the anchor - I usually don't) and make off on a cleat? UNQUOTE

ERRRR the above is a really bad idea. In the event of a sudden big blow and the anchor dragging; the additional complications in getting the chain back onto the gypsy and off the cleat under load are considerable . There are several reported incidents of crushed fingers doing this.

Use a snubber and leave the chain on the gypsy.
Click to expand...
I was always taught to take the chain off the gypsy (which doesn't make it right...) on the grounds that if the snubber were to let go or come unhooked if the boat were pitching you don't want the gypsy taking a heavy sudden load. In the case you describe I would just take the slack chain and thread it back onto the windlass, uncleat the chain, take in the slack chain and release the snubber.

Without a snubber, it would be dangerous to fingers for sure. Mind you, if you didn't have a windlass you'd have no choice but to handle the chain under load or us the engine to reduce the tension.
 
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