Where to buy a diesel Fuel Tap?

[neil1967]

I would like to install an in-line fuel tap in the rubber hose between my diesel fuel tank and the pre-filter - the existing tap leaks and is hidden under the tank - I would prefer to mount the new tap where I can see it on the cockpit (the tank is in the rear locker so the length of hose between the tank and the tap would only be a few inches. To mount the tap in the cockpit, it will have to have a reasonably long 'neck' to cope with the thickness of the fibreglass - probably around 1/2 inch. Any pointers where I might get such a tap - a google through up lots of taps designed for fitting rigid pipe, but none suitable for my purposes. My engine is a 20HP beta so not a huge fuel flow - around 1.5 litre/hour

Many thanks

Neil

 

[VicS]

ASAP Supplies Ltd ?

BES Ltd ?

This 1/2" bulkhead mounted valve from ASAP looks promising

 

[NorthUp]

your

fuel flow will be more than 1.5l/min 'consumption'- remember the fuel return line back to the tank.
10mm or 3/8" bore will be suitable.

 

[neil1967]

Yes, the ASAP bulkhead valve is what I am looking for, in principle, but I had been hoping to find one that I could attach the flexible fuel hose (probably 1/4 inch) directly too, rather than having to use adaptors, which potentially introduce leaks (and cost!). If I have to use the ASAP valve (which I had previously missed - thank you!), I will, but interested in any other suggestions.

Regards

Neil

 

[Deleted member 36384]

ASAP Supplies Ltd ?

BES Ltd ?

This 1/2" bulkhead mounted valve from ASAP looks promising

Fuel lines have to be threaded. Compression fittings are not suitable.

 

[Malish]

Fuel lines have to be threaded. Compression fittings are not suitable.

I don't agree - copper pipe + olives & compression fittings is perfectly acceptable.
For the OP I think the easiest option will be to buy a small 1/4" or 3/8" valve, appropriate compression fittings and some copper pipe. A local boat yard or heating engineer may be able to supply the bits. If it was me I would replace the flexible pipe from the tank with copper and only have a short length of flexible at the engine end.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Specification For Fuel Pipework

Neil1967. I bought an older boat last year and had the fuel delivery system from the tanks changed out.

The stuff that we used was to a standard ISO 7840:1994. I do not know if this is a standard for fuel lines only or for connections associated with fuel lines. I extracted this from my pre purchase survey.

However, where you could attach a fuel hose by a Jubilee clip to machinery e.g. lift pump, the method applied was by crimping or screwed connections.

For example: I can only unscrew the fuel lift pump spigot from the fuel pump, I can not pull the hose off the fuel pump spigot.

All the pipe is either self extinguishing plastic type that can be bent to a shape, or stainless steel braided hose with threaded end connections. These connections screw into the fuel tanks stop cocks and the twin fuel filter housing (a Vetus unit). The stop cocks required a crossover bushing for the new pipe thread, the fuel filters had the same thread profile as the new hose end fittings.

The yard replaced all this for me and I have not looked into it as its a "quality" installation and I am happy with it.

The point I am taking a rather long way to explain is; when changing out fuel lines or fittings you may be obliged to use a compliant fitting with the aforementioned standard. A fuel leak and fire followed by an insurance investigation may come to worrying conclusion if a non compliant fitting was fitted.

Its just a thought and not based on any fact that I am aware of but perhaps my experience is useful to you.

Try www.hydraulics.eaton.com who make the famous Airoquip hydraulic hoses and other fuel hoses as well. Their web site is quite informative.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I don't agree - copper pipe + olives & compression fittings is perfectly acceptable.
For the OP I think the easiest option will be to buy a small 1/4" or 3/8" valve, appropriate compression fittings and some copper pipe. A local boat yard or heating engineer may be able to supply the bits. If it was me I would replace the flexible pipe from the tank with copper and only have a short length of flexible at the engine end.

The problem with copper is that it looses its ability to seal when the pipe yields beyond the limits of the compression fitting i.e. no more tightening will stop a leak. It is also suffers from fatigue cracking when it vibrates, although it is much more resistant to fatigue cracking than many other metals which why it was used on engines for many years.

The olive fitting is of course a good fitting provided the correct type is used such as those used on gas installations which are quite static. On fuel systems where the engine vibrates and moves I don't think a rigid copper pipe, even connected by a length of flexible pipe is acceptable today. My other thread in this post discusses what happened on my own vessel. The reason for the change out was that it was a complete copper system, quite elaborate and good quality, but none of the olives would seal anymore. The original fittings would have to have been cut off and new compression fittings added. The new system beats copper hands down.

There are much better materials available today for fuel lines than compression fittings.

What a nice Rival by the way in the picture. That's from the AZAB race if I remember correctly?

 

[Refueler]

Fuel lines have to be threaded. Compression fittings are not suitable.

Please tell Mercedes Truck Division .... Perkins ..... and various other co's that have compression fittings with olives in. I speak as owner of Mercedes Truck and a Perkins engine in my boat.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Please tell Mercedes Truck Division .... Perkins ..... and various other co's that have compression fittings with olives in. I speak as owner of Mercedes Truck and a Perkins engine in my boat.

Refuler thanks for the feed back, I'll clarify my point: -

My comments with copper lines and olives on a Perkins 4236 of 1974 age, my boats engine, is mentioned above. My Volvo and Volkswagon diesel cars don't have copper lines but do have compression fittings on "hard" lines which I don't think are made from copper. They are a grey / sliver / matt metal. Even then I am sure that they are mushroom type end profiles and not olives.

My experience now is that copper fuel lines with compression fittings can be replaced with better materials, that's all. If all the previous owners of my vessel had looked after the fuel lines (being copper with compression fittings), they would have been in good shape.

A Ferrule and Olive Compression fitting has a limited make up life cycle. On the low pressure side where copper is used the life cycle is even less because of the the ductility of copper. The high pressure side appears to be more robust because the material is harder i.e. the metal when it yields takes more force to plastic deform and stop sealing, so you can get a good seal without work hardening the fuel pipe / olive / compression fitting over many more cycles.

I have renovated Triumph, Norton and BSA motorbikes with copper oil feeds to the rockers and it is a material / assembly with limited functionality. It works while it is all new, but it only takes a few tinkerings to stop being oil tight.

The picture shown of a compression fitting stop cock didn't look like the type of modern olive and ferrule that you may find on a fuel system.

This is simply my experience offered for a fellow boater.

 

[VicS]

Fuel lines have to be threaded. Compression fittings are not suitable.

The valve I suggested is threaded BSP.

It is listed by a ASAP as a valve for fuel sytems.

Dont know why you think it's a compression fitting.

From what others say compression fittings are suitable and commonplace anyway as is copper pipe.

Only snag is that it is probably too large.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Link To ASAP Supplies

The valve I suggested is threaded BSP.

It is listed by a ASAP as a valve for fuel sytems.

Dont know why you think it's a compression fitting.

From what others say compression fittings are suitable and commonplace anyway as is copper pipe.

Only snag is that it is probably too large.

Thanks VicS and I stand corrected. I thought the port on the valve to the left of the picture looked like a compression fitting.

If anyone else reads this when looking for advice don't get hung up on what I say. Copper and compression fittings are common place in diesel fuel systems used on boats.

My own preference now is that there are better materials than copper and more reliable connectors than compression fittings.

The Link http://www.asap-supplies.com/

 

[VicS]

All this discussion about copper or other alloys and compression fittings!

Look back at the original question and you'll see that Neil intends fitting this valve in a hose!

All he needs is a valve that can be mounted in the required position ... the one I found??... fitted with a pair of hose tails (via reducing bushes perhaps).

Let the arguments about the folly of hoses in fuel systems begin

 

[Deleted member 36384]

All this discussion about copper or other alloys and compression fittings!

Look back at the original question and you'll see that Neil intends fitting this valve in a hose!

All he needs is a valve that can be mounted in the required position ... the one I found??... fitted with a pair of hose tails (via reducing bushes perhaps).

Let the arguments about the folly of hoses in fuel systems begin

Hoses aside and at the risk of humiliation I need to fit a bulk head valve as well for exactly the same reasons. If I had an engine room fire the port fuel tank stop cock is under the sole of the cockpit locker, which is a side entry to the engine room, and so is not accessible! Its on my winter to do list as well. Vanity and ego, I missed the point!

.......now about hoses I have an.................I'll leave it there.

Thanks for a solution s well.

 

[JohnTH]

There is a "fire" valve in the fuel line of my canal boat.

It has never been tested (yet) and I hope it never, ever is.

My old Land Rover has some sort of plastic fuel pipe and crimped olives. There was an engine fire caused by an electrical fault. The pipe melted feeding the engine fire. My error was putting it out! Mr insurance company refused to pay to fix the wiring but did pay for consequential damage.

This was many years ago and still do not understand

73s de
Johnth

 

[neil1967]

Thanks for the advice - I wasn't intending to replace the fuel lines, but it might be the right time to do it if I am installing the new tap. What is the problem with using flexible rubber pipe if it meets ISO 7840. My fuel lines are quite short, and presumably if the pipe is suitably supported /fixed there should be no chafe problems.

Regards

Neil

 

[savageseadog]

Refuler thanks for the feed back, I'll clarify my point: -

My comments with copper lines and olives on a Perkins 4236 of 1974 age, my boats engine, is mentioned above. My Volvo and Volkswagon diesel cars don't have copper lines but do have compression fittings on "hard" lines which I don't think are made from copper. They are a grey / sliver / matt metal. ............

Cunifer (Kunifer?) I think

 

[PetiteFleur]

Thanks for the advice - I wasn't intending to replace the fuel lines, but it might be the right time to do it if I am installing the new tap. What is the problem with using flexible rubber pipe if it meets ISO 7840. My fuel lines are quite short, and presumably if the pipe is suitably supported /fixed there should be no chafe problems.

Regards

Neil

When I installed my new engine & tank I used copper up to the bulkhead mounted filter then an ISO 7840 hose to the barbed fitting on the engine. It was about 30" long and is supported in the centre to a cable for the steering, which it is just clipped to. No problem to date. I fitted a tap on top of the tank which is easily accessible on my boat.