Where should I position a Midships cleat?

[Yeoman_24]

I sail short handed with just my wife on our Moody 30 and I have seen lots of information and practical demos regarding the effectiveness of a midships cleat.

So, hoping to avoid the obvious (ie, I get it is somewhere in the middle!) how do I ascertain the optimum location to install a midships cleat?

 

[Poignard]

Rig a line tightly between shrouds and an aft cleat. Attach a spring to it with a rolling hitch. Position your boat alongside a pontoon with the engine running in gear and the tiller towards the pontoon. Adjust the postion of the rolling hitch until the boat lies parallel to the pontoon. That is where your midship cleat should be.

 

[Yeoman_24]

A great technical answer. Cracking. Thanks

 

[Sneaky Pete]

Consider what is under the deck accessibility as this is where the cleat have to be secured. If there is no fairlead on the toerail consider how to reduce any chafing that will occur on the warps.

 

[sailorman]

Fit @ Max beam & adjust fixed spring on the dock to suit.
In a lock or along-side we always get the spring on first & make it off, them control the boat with gears/ engine until head line is secure then the stern line.
Our cleats are affixed inboard to the slotted toerail

 

[ashtead]

Maybe look at where other Moody's have them or ask on moody owners website - I'm not a member but it seems to attract many who are Moody owners

 

[chinita]

Fit @ Max beam & adjust fixed spring on the dock to suit.
In a lock or along-side we always get the spring on first & make it off, them control the boat with gears/ engine until head line is secure then the stern line.
Our cleats are affixed inboard to the slotted toerail

Christ! I had to get me magnifying glass out to find that cleat

 

[PaulRainbow]

I sail short handed with just my wife on our Moody 30 and I have seen lots of information and practical demos regarding the effectiveness of a midships cleat.

So, hoping to avoid the obvious (ie, I get it is somewhere in the middle!) how do I ascertain the optimum location to install a midships cleat?

If you want to use it for short handed mooring, the only place to put it is at the point of greatest beam. You can then make the bow pivot in/out by leaving the boat in gear and turning the rudder, as Sailorman describes (although i do spring then stern and lastly bow). This works ahead or astern and allows me to easily single hand a 10m boat through locks and onto pontoons etc.

 

[macd]

+1 with Paul.

But, if an existing fairlead will be used, in mechanical terms it makes no difference where the cleat is. The springs will act about the fairlead.
For the same reason, if a new fairlead is to be installed, the question ought to be about its placement, not the cleats (with due regard for convenience of rope handling etc).

 

[reeac]

I sail short handed with just my wife on our Moody 30 and I have seen lots of information and practical demos regarding the effectiveness of a midships cleat.

So, hoping to avoid the obvious (ie, I get it is somewhere in the middle!) how do I ascertain the optimum location to install a midships cleat?

Our Sadler 29 has inverted U bolts for shroud attachment and we've always used them as a midship fastening for a dedicated short line with a Snapshackle to provide a first fastening. That means they are alongside the mast and that position works well.

 

[Daydream believer]

Personally i would not bother with a fairlead for a midships cleat, because of the way many manouver against the cleat if the line went through the fairlead it could break the fairlead. The Hanse forum often has threads about broken fairleads. This may only be relevant to Hanse of course but they do not make the fairleads. Plus there is no point trying to get a line through a fairlead when trying to moor up in a hurry anyway.

I also find that in a bumpy marina squeaky lines can be a nuisance so the best option is to hook the line through the middle of the cleat, over one horn & the other end away from the boat. Do not bother going through the fairleads where it will squeak. Do all the figure of 8 stuff on the pontoon cleat so that it can be adjusted there. ( I know one should really do a loop at the pontoon but if one cannot sleep then then it is an option)
I never use the fairleads on stern or bow either

 

[macd]

Do all the figure of 8 stuff on the pontoon cleat so that it can be adjusted there.

He doesn't say it in so many words, but I think the OP's principle concern is in using a midships line for the act of berthing short-handed, in which case just dropping a line over a shoreside cleat/bollard is what's called for. The niceties of which you write obviously come later.

I almost always use fairleads at stern, bow and midships, but then I don't have a Hanse.

 

[sailorman]

Christ! I had to get me magnifying glass out to find that cleat

Its all relative, that cleat would look big on a small boat

 

[KellysEye]

Ours were at the widest part of the beam, which strikes me as amidships.

 

[Yeoman_24]

Thanks for some interesting answers. Plenty to think about. Indeed, my intended purpose of the cleat is to assist with short handed berthing.
The toerail cleat looks like an interesting solution but I'm a bit worried about having the weight of the boat under load being held effectively by the toerail. Is this likely to cause any structural problems? Does anyone have any long term experience?
I'm not worried about having a fairlead at this location.

 

[Daydream believer]

, but then I don't have a Hanse.

Life can be a bitch !!!!!!!

 

[Yeoman_24]

Our Sadler 29 has inverted U bolts for shroud attachment and we've always used them as a midship fastening for a dedicated short line with a Snapshackle to provide a first fastening. That means they are alongside the mast and that position works well.

Nice idea but my shroud fittings are not like that.

 

[Tranona]

Thanks for some interesting answers. Plenty to think about. Indeed, my intended purpose of the cleat is to assist with short handed berthing.
The toerail cleat looks like an interesting solution but I'm a bit worried about having the weight of the boat under load being held effectively by the toerail. Is this likely to cause any structural problems? Does anyone have any long term experience?
I'm not worried about having a fairlead at this location.

If you have genoa tracks on the decks you might also consider the Barton cleats that run on tracks. That way they are adjustable (and easy to fit). Would not worry about loads on either tracks or toe rails. Just think of the loads of sails, and toe rails are often used for blocks for spinnakers etc.

 

[macd]

Would not worry about loads on either tracks or toe rails. Just think of the loads of sails, and toe rails are often used for blocks for spinnakers etc.

+1
If its a typical aluminium toerail (such as in sailorman's photo), it's held down by a zillion fasteners which go through both hull and deck, and the loads you apply are roughly parallel to its strongest axis. It's more than strong enough for berthing.

 

[Poignard]

If you have genoa tracks on the decks you might also consider the Barton cleats that run on tracks. That way they are adjustable (and easy to fit). Would not worry about loads on either tracks or toe rails. Just think of the loads of sails, and toe rails are often used for blocks for spinnakers etc.

That's what I have had for 18 years or so. Works pefectly and I was able to experiment to find the best location for my cleats which is, by the way, aft of the widest part of the boat.

Regarding strength, I have had a few regrettably spectacular "comings alongside" over the years but there is no sign of the track or its fastenings having suffered as a result of my carelessness.