Where have all the good women gone?

[girlofwight]

At the last Southampton boat show, the cloak only worked when I was alone. When I was walking with a male friend, plenty of attention from the various stall holders. I went on several days, one day with a male friend, another day alone, another day with a male friend. the difference was marked. I should try again with a female friend, but I don't have any, they're all smooth faced chaps with suspiciously perfect moustaches.

The SIBS cloak of invisibility works well, I’ve experienced it also. Particularly as a woman in a same sex relationship. There is a certain grim pleasure in replying to the pontoon sales staff, when you can get attention, that we dropped £500k on a new boat a few years ago. So, no, I’m not really interested in a lightweight sailing dinghy that’s easily handled.

To the general topic. It’s a male dominated forum, meh, deal with it. If I need help I’ll pop my nose in, and maybe otherwise on a quiet evening (this evening). But it doesn’t always feel a welcoming environment, that’s for sure.

 

[girlofwight]

Not to forget a fairly well known UK shipping co. (In US ownership since 1998 but still UK based):

She might even be in the Solent this Friday!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruises/articles/Meet-Cunards-first-and-only-female-captain/

She was capitain on a cruise we were on last year, the cruise - from captains perspective - from hell. Missing pilot. Missing fuel barge. Total engine failure. Fire in the incinerator room (Cf the incinerator ). Diversionary Medivac. A broken down ship on the scheduled berth in Southampton (cue 2000 people disembarking the wrong side of Southampton to their onward travel and cars).

Happy days. Schadenfreude - even the pros have bad days.

 

[JumbleDuck]

true story: A British orchestra management team were discussing the lack of ethnic diversity in the orchestra. Between them they all agreed that they didn't think they were biased and it must be a lack of talent in that area. So to be sure to rule out a bias, they only auditioned for positions, behind a screen and nameless.
Suddenly there's a lot more black and ethnic minorities popping up in the orchestra. Funny that.

Enlightened orchestras have been using blind auditions for quite a while - you'll probably not be surprised to find that women benefit too. From a 1997 NBER paper on the practice:

Using data from actual auditions in an individual fixed-effects framework, we find that the screen increases by 50% the probability a woman will be advanced out of certain preliminary rounds. The screen also enhances, by severalfold, the likelihood a female contestant will be the winner in the final round. Using data on orchestra personnel, the switch to blind' auditions can explain between 30% and 55% of the increase in the proportion female among new hires and between 25% and 46% of the increase in the percentage female in the orchestras since 1970.

From http://www.nber.org/papers/w5903​

It shows how important it is that we all recognize that we all have unconscious biasses. This doesn't make us bad people.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

At my workplace there are Staff Network Groups for:

BAME
Carers
Disabled
Faith
LGBT
Women

As a white, heterosexual, able-bodied, atheist male there isn't a single network group I can attach myself to. So I go sailing instead.

Pah, we're way ahead of a paltry 6 groups. It's at least 20 - you can discriminate by skin colour, gender (or lack of it), racial background, whether or not you have children, your education, your medical health (or rather lack of it), any reason at all (except I think religion). I was told it was not acceptable to start a single white male group though (heterosexual or otherwise). I can start a single Father's group but I can't join it because my lad's turned 18 and he's not my biological son nor adopted (and 25 years of bills, invoices, bank transfers, receipts, Father's Day cards, etc. apparently don't count). Diversity American style - you couldn't make it up.

On the positive side I am allowed to join any group (so it's not discriminatory see) and the APAC folk throw some mean lunchtime curry sessions.

 

[Tomahawk]

When I was working at Hackney Borough Council, I used to joke that I was the ethnic minority. I was the only white English male in the entire office. Management didn't seem to think it was very funny.

 

[Stemar]

When I was working at Hackney Borough Council, I used to joke that I was the ethnic minority. I was the only white English male in the entire office. Management didn't seem to think it was very funny.

Not surprised - how can you not understand that the token minority is supposed to be grateful for the job, to work twice as hard as everyone else and keep their mouth shut? Just be grateful you didn't get your bum pinched every time you went to make a coffee

 

[phanakapan]

I’ve been a bit too busy sailing round the world then working as a Berthing Master in the UK’s largest marina to post much on here. Lack of decent 4g here at anchor ( Rocna, having its first outing, in a F 6/7 ?) is frustrating a longer reply from my iPhone so briefly- ‘wot Sugarkane said’

 

[sandy2886]

I am a single 60 year old woman who would love to travel with the right partner. Possibly just as a great crew member. Very experienced motorboat and sailboat have been hired multiple times as a chef and mate. please be kind I travel with my legs crossed I am not loose-legged and don't intend to start today I want to find a good meat and true life partner if possible be a good crew member .
Sandy

 

[nortada]

I am a single 60 year old woman who would love to travel with the right partner. Possibly just as a great crew member. Very experienced motorboat and sailboat have been hired multiple times as a chef and mate. please be kind I travel with my legs crossed I am not loose-legged and don't intend to start today I want to find a good meat and true life partner if possible be a good crew member .
Sandy

Hi Sandy, welcome to the forum and I wish you well in your quest.

Where are you based

It might help if you could narrow down what you are looking for; day sailing, weekend, longer term (up to liveaboard), UK based, Europe or further afield.

How much time a year to you plan to devote to sailing

Does it have to be maleThere are a number of lady skippers who sail both single handed and with a crew.

I appreciate, until you have a few more posts under your belt, you will not be able to post a thread but when you can, to get more specific coverage, it might be a good idea to start a new thread in an area forum Bristol, East Coast etc. but not the Lounge

 

[Daydream believer]

Any chance that you have inherited a brewery �� Or own a pub would be a good start������

 

[Stemar]

Any chance that you have inherited a brewery �� Or own a pub would be a good start������

Send picture of pub

 

[zoidberg]

I'm enjoying 'SK' telling it like it is. But.... I blame the muthers.

I'm thinking of the grandmother battling her way north towards warmer waters, after coping with storms, gear failure, knockdowns, and other disappointments, while trying yet again to complete her non-stop unassisted s/h circumnavigation - who writes and transmits her own blog - Jeanne Socrates. I'm thinking about the lass who insisted on doing a night class where I taught, who wouldn't give up or in despite the patronising behaviour of other coarse members ( sic ).... and who later invited me along as 'Honorary Girlie' on an otherwise all-girl crew. I managed to 'pull my weight' with getting the anchor and cleaning up 'what got left in the sink'. She ran the boat. She's now a RORC Scrutineer, and sails about 10,000nm a year, getting asked back time and again on BIG Med race boats 'cos she pulls her weight, too.

When I adopt a male persona in a professional setting electronically/in publishing, I get straightforward answers and everything feels that bit more efficient.
As myself, I find a range of responses, sometimes I have to explain myself several times, be more persuasive, I'm more conscious about coming across as "bossy" or rude or overly self confident.
I find shopping particularly frustrating. Recently, I was in a shop wanting to discuss and buy a specific computer. I wandered backwards and forwards trying to get attention. I tried another shop, same response. I can do the same in a good number of motorbike shops and cycle shops. It's like putting on the cloak of invisibility.

I'm tempted to invite the good 'SK' to poke her nose into 'The Other Place', which is enlivened by several other women members. But it's likely she has looked, and moved on.

As one feisty and competent she-sailor put it..... 'Not my demographic'.

 

[steveeasy]

Just looked back through this thread and found Solent Clowns Posts. Don't worry where the women have gone, we need another clown. Unfortunately he was one of a kind and kept us all entertained for far too short a time.

Steveeasy

 

[nortada]

Just looked back through this thread and found Solent Clowns Posts. Don't worry where the women have gone, we need another clown. Unfortunately he was one of a kind and kept us all entertained for far too short a time.

Steveeasy

Link to Solent Clowns Thread, please.

Are all clowns in the SolentAlways thought that might be the case :encouragement:

 

[RichardS]

Link to Solent Clowns Thread, please.

You're already in that very thread .... starting with post #7. :encouragement:

Richard

 

[nortada]

You're already in that very thread .... starting with post #7. :encouragement:

Richard

Thanks - Fred Drift strikes again!

 

[Bajansailor]

Here are just a random collection of thoughts put together after scanning through the whole thread above.

I earn a living by working as a marine surveyor - I can't afford to be fussy here, so I have to be able to have a bash at pretty much anything that comes along from small yachts to big ships. I do annual flag state inspections for the Bahamas and Barbados Registries, and I have met the two ladies mentioned in the links below as a result of these surveys.

I have met Captain Bennett a few times on Windstar, starting when she was a Second Officer - I would not like to try to imagine the prejudice and opposition she probably has had to put up with along her career path.
https://blog.windstarcruises.com/wi...nda-bennett-awarded-2018-merchant-navy-medal/

And I met Kate McCue 4 years ago when she was the Staff Captain on a Royal Caribbean vessel that I was visiting for her annual flag state inspection - she had been assigned to help me with the survey.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_McCue

Staff Captains have 4 stripes on their shoulders, same as Masters; on these large cruise ships it is impossible for the Master to do all the duties required of a Captain, hence why they have Staff Captains (who are second in command) to help, including re the admin work. Chief Engineers similarly have Staff Chiefs as well.
And not long after this visit I saw a report in a marine newsletter that Captain McCue had been appointed as a Master with Celebrity Cruises. And she has been going from strength to strength ever since.

One of Captain Bennett's fellow Masters with Windstar told me once that on average he had to deal with 300 - 400 emails a day - and he had to open every one, scan through it, decide if it needed a reply or not, and if it should be saved or deleted - and just doing this takes up a lot of time. If replies are needed, then it can probably take all day. The larger cruise ships have assistants to help with this.

And I am Facebook friends with a lady who started her sailing career with the STA (later the Tall Ships Youth Trust) - after sailing as a paying punter 15+ years ago she was invited to apply to become a member of the volunteer crew as an assistant cook. After crewing on various voyages in this capacity she was encouraged to apply for a cadetship with a well known shipping line, and 12 years later she was (and still is) a Master on their fleet of tankers.

Discrimination can also work the other way as well.
When I first returned to the Caribbean (after living in England for 15 years) I tried to get a job as a deckhand on a yacht in Antigua 24 years ago.
I had an RYA Yachtmaster qualification with a Commercial endorsement, along with RYA dinghy sailing instructor, RYA Powerboat Level 2/3, BSAC scuba diver and approx. 40,000 miles offshore logged, including a couple of transatlantics.
But could I find a job?
No.
I was usually told that I was 'too old' (at 33?) - however I think the real reason was that I did not fit the stereotype image of what a yacht crew should have looked like then (I subsequently met a few other yacht crew who were metaphorically in the same boat re not being able to find a crewing job simply because they were 'different' due to race, size and age).
Fast forward about 10 years, and I was the unofficial local rep for the TSYT when their brigs Stavros and Prince William visited Barbados (they did this for about 6 years every winter).
One young (early 20's) lady had just completed a transatlantic voyage as a watch leader - she had an RYA Competent Crew certificate.
She was at a loose end, and didn't really fancy returning to Britain in mid-winter to look for a 'proper' job after graduating from university the summer before.
She was also stereotypically tall, blonde, beautiful, busty and charming.
Oh, and a very competent sailor to boot.
I suggested to her that she should get herself up to Antigua and she would find herself a job on a boat, no worries.
She did just that, and subsequently emailed me two weeks later to say that she had been offered 2 positions soon after arriving in Antigua, and she was now a deckie on a lovely 150' gaff schooner. And doing very well at it.

 

[nortada]

Here are just a random collection of thoughts put together after scanning through the whole thread above.

I earn a living by working as a marine surveyor - I can't afford to be fussy here, so I have to be able to have a bash at pretty much anything that comes along from small yachts to big ships. I do annual flag state inspections for the Bahamas and Barbados Registries, and I have met the two ladies mentioned in the links below as a result of these surveys.

I have met Captain Bennett a few times on Windstar, starting when she was a Second Officer - I would not like to try to imagine the prejudice and opposition she probably has had to put up with along her career path.
https://blog.windstarcruises.com/wi...nda-bennett-awarded-2018-merchant-navy-medal/

And I met Kate McCue 4 years ago when she was the Staff Captain on a Royal Caribbean vessel that I was visiting for her annual flag state inspection - she had been assigned to help me with the survey.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_McCue

Staff Captains have 4 stripes on their shoulders, same as Masters; on these large cruise ships it is impossible for the Master to do all the duties required of a Captain, hence why they have Staff Captains (who are second in command) to help, including re the admin work. Chief Engineers similarly have Staff Chiefs as well.
And not long after this visit I saw a report in a marine newsletter that Captain McCue had been appointed as a Master with Celebrity Cruises. And she has been going from strength to strength ever since.

One of Captain Bennett's fellow Masters with Windstar told me once that on average he had to deal with 300 - 400 emails a day - and he had to open every one, scan through it, decide if it needed a reply or not, and if it should be saved or deleted - and just doing this takes up a lot of time. If replies are needed, then it can probably take all day. The larger cruise ships have assistants to help with this.

And I am Facebook friends with a lady who started her sailing career with the STA (later the Tall Ships Youth Trust) - after sailing as a paying punter 15+ years ago she was invited to apply to become a member of the volunteer crew as an assistant cook. After crewing on various voyages in this capacity she was encouraged to apply for a cadetship with a well known shipping line, and 12 years later she was (and still is) a Master on their fleet of tankers.

Discrimination can also work the other way as well.
When I first returned to the Caribbean (after living in England for 15 years) I tried to get a job as a deckhand on a yacht in Antigua 24 years ago.
I had an RYA Yachtmaster qualification with a Commercial endorsement, along with RYA dinghy sailing instructor, RYA Powerboat Level 2/3, BSAC scuba diver and approx. 40,000 miles offshore logged, including a couple of transatlantics.
But could I find a job?
No.
I was usually told that I was 'too old' (at 33?) - however I think the real reason was that I did not fit the stereotype image of what a yacht crew should have looked like then (I subsequently met a few other yacht crew who were metaphorically in the same boat re not being able to find a crewing job simply because they were 'different' due to race, size and age).
Fast forward about 10 years, and I was the unofficial local rep for the TSYT when their brigs Stavros and Prince William visited Barbados (they did this for about 6 years every winter).
One young (early 20's) lady had just completed a transatlantic voyage as a watch leader - she had an RYA Competent Crew certificate.
She was at a loose end, and didn't really fancy returning to Britain in mid-winter to look for a 'proper' job after graduating from university the summer before.
She was also stereotypically tall, blonde, beautiful, busty and charming.
Oh, and a very competent sailor to boot.
I suggested to her that she should get herself up to Antigua and she would find herself a job on a boat, no worries.
She did just that, and subsequently emailed me two weeks later to say that she had been offered 2 positions soon after arriving in Antigua, and she was now a deckie on a lovely 150' gaff schooner. And doing very well at it.

Thank you for a very interesting post.

This thread was resurrected by Sandy’s post, #148, having been dormant for nearly a year.

I am not too sure that her area of interest stretches to the other side of The Pond but you have certainly provided her food for thought.

As said before, Sandy’s interests may be best served by starting a new thread on her local area YBW forum.

 

[dom]

An old thread, but what a perceptive and wonderfully written glimpse of life, boats, and people :encouragement:

Here are just a random collection of thoughts put together after scanning through the whole thread above.

I earn a living by working as a marine surveyor - I can't afford to be fussy here, so I have to be able to have a bash at pretty much anything that comes along from small yachts to big ships. I do annual flag state inspections for the Bahamas and Barbados Registries, and I have met the two ladies mentioned in the links below as a result of these surveys.

I have met Captain Bennett a few times on Windstar, starting when she was a Second Officer - I would not like to try to imagine the prejudice and opposition she probably has had to put up with along her career path.
https://blog.windstarcruises.com/wi...nda-bennett-awarded-2018-merchant-navy-medal/

And I met Kate McCue 4 years ago when she was the Staff Captain on a Royal Caribbean vessel that I was visiting for her annual flag state inspection - she had been assigned to help me with the survey.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_McCue

Staff Captains have 4 stripes on their shoulders, same as Masters; on these large cruise ships it is impossible for the Master to do all the duties required of a Captain, hence why they have Staff Captains (who are second in command) to help, including re the admin work. Chief Engineers similarly have Staff Chiefs as well.
And not long after this visit I saw a report in a marine newsletter that Captain McCue had been appointed as a Master with Celebrity Cruises. And she has been going from strength to strength ever since.

One of Captain Bennett's fellow Masters with Windstar told me once that on average he had to deal with 300 - 400 emails a day - and he had to open every one, scan through it, decide if it needed a reply or not, and if it should be saved or deleted - and just doing this takes up a lot of time. If replies are needed, then it can probably take all day. The larger cruise ships have assistants to help with this.

And I am Facebook friends with a lady who started her sailing career with the STA (later the Tall Ships Youth Trust) - after sailing as a paying punter 15+ years ago she was invited to apply to become a member of the volunteer crew as an assistant cook. After crewing on various voyages in this capacity she was encouraged to apply for a cadetship with a well known shipping line, and 12 years later she was (and still is) a Master on their fleet of tankers.

Discrimination can also work the other way as well.
When I first returned to the Caribbean (after living in England for 15 years) I tried to get a job as a deckhand on a yacht in Antigua 24 years ago.
I had an RYA Yachtmaster qualification with a Commercial endorsement, along with RYA dinghy sailing instructor, RYA Powerboat Level 2/3, BSAC scuba diver and approx. 40,000 miles offshore logged, including a couple of transatlantics.
But could I find a job?
No.
I was usually told that I was 'too old' (at 33?) - however I think the real reason was that I did not fit the stereotype image of what a yacht crew should have looked like then (I subsequently met a few other yacht crew who were metaphorically in the same boat re not being able to find a crewing job simply because they were 'different' due to race, size and age).
Fast forward about 10 years, and I was the unofficial local rep for the TSYT when their brigs Stavros and Prince William visited Barbados (they did this for about 6 years every winter).
One young (early 20's) lady had just completed a transatlantic voyage as a watch leader - she had an RYA Competent Crew certificate.
She was at a loose end, and didn't really fancy returning to Britain in mid-winter to look for a 'proper' job after graduating from university the summer before.
She was also stereotypically tall, blonde, beautiful, busty and charming.
Oh, and a very competent sailor to boot.
I suggested to her that she should get herself up to Antigua and she would find herself a job on a boat, no worries.
She did just that, and subsequently emailed me two weeks later to say that she had been offered 2 positions soon after arriving in Antigua, and she was now a deckie on a lovely 150' gaff schooner. And doing very well at it.

 

[scotty123]

Hey Dom, we both snagged good ones. who else matters?

Had to look twice at that comment, though assume the other would suit just as well.