Where have all the dayboats gone?

Lakesailor said:
If you sail somewhere like the lakes a Hawk 20 makes excellent sense. If you are day-sailing the cabin accommodation of a yacht is literally a waste-of-space storage area.

You can't (shouldn't) judge everything by your own rather narrow values.
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No doubt the Hawk is safe and solid...can be quick, too, I heard. Not crazy about its looks though...

Hawk20_200.png


...but the identical boat with a cabin top, looks much better to me - still has the big cockpit, and somewhere to sit if it rains. :)

But even if the Hawk is any good, it's as much money as some spectacularly pretty Dragons I've seen. No contest! :p

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Very narrow hull, it's true. Is that what you meant? :)
 
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penfold said:
Day boats are a toy, so in straitened times people will want either better value or lower cost. The classes mentioned in the link, 1720, 707, SB3, are high performance boats which need new sails every 2 years or so to remain competitive, cannot realistically be cruised, are relatively lightly built so are prone to damage when handled clumsily. They do not appear to be friendly to the tyro either. When looking at £4+k every 2 years for a suit of flappy things, owners will either look to downsize or want to go to a cruiser racer like a Snotty etc, to get that better value.

My local club sail Loch Longs, numbers of active boats have been stable here for the last few years and the numbers at Aldeburgh rising slowly in that time.
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Actually part of the success of the SB3 was that the annual sail bill was only £1250 for the lot which compared to £6500 if I want to replace everything on the Impala makes a great deal of sense.

I dont know, but I sense that the Srn's intention is to adopt and promote a new one design keelboat fleet. The are some interesting contenders with the SB3 being relaunchd as the
SB20, Bavaria's B-One, the Elan 210 and the J70.
All have lifting keeps and are trailable. All but the SB3 have a little accomodation and are therefore workable as weekenders.

Personally I think the SB20 is not going to get the nod as it has had its day and is a one trick pony. The Bone will never catch on with the Hamble vibe so it'll come down to the J versus the Elan and since I have to declare an interest in the Elan I'll leave it there.
 
jerrytug said:
No offence,but what's the point of a 'day' boat? Too big to carry on roofrack,too tiny to sleep on board on a little passage round the coast or to France,but with all the expense of a pocket cruiser,what's the point?
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For day racing, a three man keelboat can make a lot more sense than a cruiser/racer demanding a crew of 6/7/8. Far less hassle organising crew, one design - so better racing than handicap, much cheaper sail costs, no engine/very small outboard etc, so much less maintenance worries. Also, being bigger than a dinghy and having a keel means that you're far happier out in the middle of the Solent in 25 kts.

2 real "types" of dayboat - the local club based classes (Bembridge Redwing, Seaview Mermaid, Swallow, Sunbeam, Daring, XOD, Yarmouth One Design), and the national/international classes which happen(ed) to have a Solent fleet - Dragon, Etchells, Squib, SB20, (the late..) J24 , 707 ("), Melges 24 ("), 1720 ("). RS Elite is sort of half way between the two - a couple of fleets (Chi harbour, Burnham).

Unsurprisingly, given access to the Solent and London, the Hamble/Royal Southern has traditionally been the home of the hot fleet of go fast boats. The hiatus in builder/class support for the SB20 and the recession has put a severe dent in that fleet's activities, so it'll be interesting to see the conclusions of the seminar, and whether the SB20 can be revived or whether it's ceased to be; expired and gone to meet its maker; a stiff; bereft of life; rests in peace; pushing up the daisies; its metabolic processes are now history; its off the twig; kicked the bucket, shuffled off this mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile, and it's time for the next big thing.
 
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And another thing. To race a dayboat, you really need either a) to live near to the boat or b) a club with good showers, changing and probably accommodation. If you thrash around the cans in sporty weather, you going to get cold and wet. When you come ashore you need somewhere to dry out, put on a clean pair of nickers, and drink a glass of something cheering. And if you're expected to do that on Saturday and Sunday, you need a comfortable bed too. So dayboating is not amenable to the commuting sailor unless there are plenty of club cabins to be had (or unless you can afford to keep the mothership down there as well!)
 
Keen_Ed said:
Unsurprisingly, given access to the Solent and London, the Hamble/Royal Southern has traditionally been the home of the hot fleet of go fast boats. The hiatus in builder/class support for the SB20 and the recession has put a severe dent in that fleet's activities, so it'll be interesting to see the conclusions of the seminar, and whether the SB20 can be revived or whether it's ceased to be; expired and gone to meet its maker; a stiff; bereft of life; rests in peace; pushing up the daisies; its metabolic processes are now history; its off the twig; kicked the bucket, shuffled off this mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile, and it's time for the next big thing.
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Very true :D

Having raced SB3's / SB20's for a season, compared with racing big boats and dinghy's, the biggest problem I had with them is the disparity between their upwind and downwind performance. In light airs it was ok but in any sort of blow you'd go upwind at about 5 knots and downwind at over 16 (yeehaaa :) ) which means if you are racing windward/leewards the beat is either extremely long or downwind by the time you'd got the kite up, gybed, got the spreaders out the water, you were back at the leeward mark. The racing just wasn't exciting enough for me i'm afraid. Oh, and you couldn't hike either due to that silly bar on the rail.
 
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Leaving racing aside because I couldn't be less interested, I sail an open keelboat because it suits what I want to do at the moment. I wanted a boat of about 20Ft for day-sailing and a three-quarter decker gives you a much better cockpit than a similar sized boat with accommodation. I chose a Hanseatic 19.2 because it was what was available at the time but I would have been equally happy with a Squib or Yeoman; if I lived on the South Coast an X-Boat or similar might appeal. What I could never do is have a Hawk; no matter how good a boat it is just too ugly.
I sail on Windermere which is a reasonable stretch of water (10.4 x 1mile) for a boat of this size. We may not get the sort of adventures that could be had on the Solent or the Clyde but it affords several hours at a time of interesting sailing ( wind affected by surrounding hills) and in general people seem inclined to sail in less benign weather than on the sea.
There is a significant fleet of a local classic one design keelboat which is still being built (Windermere 17) and a fleet of Flying Fifteens. There are also one or two Dragons and a Piper. The winter series attracts a mixed fleet of J80's?, 1720's Solings etc. In short both the racing and cruising/ pottering scene in keelboats is doing well here.
 
There's a reason that you see a lot of Hawk 20s about in UK coastal waters. They're very versatile little boats and sail nicely as well. I had one for some years in Chichester Harbour and I could often keep up with the classic keel boats and surprisingly point nearly as high. They're a great boat to learn in.
They're displacement hulls though, it takes a lot of wind to get them planing.

It's worth noting that they're built in Christchurch and are one of only a few surviving British boat builders.

I'd recommend a Hawk to anyone looking for a family-friendly trailer-able day boat. They do keep their value quite well.

I had mine for years and only sold it on because I thought it was time for a cruising boat. I can assure you that the Hawk was a lot cheaper to buy and maintain :-).
 
it seems unreasonable to compare the new price of a hawk 20 against the second hand price of 20 year old small cruisers whether you like them or not. a builder has a cost to produce a new boat at a profit.

personally I think the hawk satisfies its design brief very well and would go there if in the market for a trailer sailer day boat.

One arced at our club for a while and I was impressed. Sometimes it won, other times it carried a half a dozen kids easily.

Its sea worthy yet can be beached for a picnic.

comparing apples and bananas never works.

How much is a Rustler 24?
 
Hawk +1

Seajet said:
Dan,

I'm sure the Hawk 20 must be good for something, but it's passed me by.
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Perhaps it was too quick for you?

Hawk is a fabulous concept, really good at what it does. Not for everyone, I accept ..... starting with SWMBO, who'd probably share your assessment. *Sigh*
 
EuanMcKenzie said:
it seems unreasonable to compare the new price of a hawk 20 against the second hand price of 20 year old small cruisers whether you like them or not. a builder has a cost to produce a new boat at a profit.

personally I think the hawk satisfies its design brief very well and would go there if in the market for a trailer sailer day boat.

One arced at our club for a while and I was impressed. Sometimes it won, other times it carried a half a dozen kids easily.

Its sea worthy yet can be beached for a picnic.

comparing apples and bananas never works.

How much is a Rustler 24?
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Rustler 24 is about £45k including inboard and trailer but I'm sure you could make it much more if you talked about what you might like to those nice people at Rustler for long enough! Lovely boat though.
 
One thing I will say in favour of the Hawk 20, at least it will go on a sensible half tide mooring.

The majority of the day / keelboats mentioned on this thread require a deep water mooring or marina berth, so silly money.

If well enough off a marina berth in a place like - in Chichester Harbour - Emsworth or Northney would be great.

A deep water mooring however, as I discovered, is a PITA in the middle of nowhere, with poor security and requiring a sizeable tender with all the slipway hassle that involves.

At least something like a Hawk, while it may not set my heart on fire with those looks, will go on a half tide mooring in a sheltered spot close to the shore ( and quite possibly pub ).
 
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