When the windward mark rounding goes a bit wrong....
- Thread starter flaming
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anoccasionalyachtsman
Well-known member
A lot of reluctance to make an early decision to go round the outside there... Thinking back to one of my 'well-seized' opportunities this year - phew.
flaming
Well-known member
Yes, I was just imagining the first boat looking back 30s later and thinking "where did everyone go...?"
Channel Sailor
Active member
I am interested to understand which boat(s) were not playing by the rules and which rules. Or was it entirely just a sporting incident as they say in F1 motor racing?
My take on it is the white hulled yacht in 2nd place should not have tacked to try to get around the mark. Because they have no right of way when tacking and must keep clear when tacking. They should have had no option but to bear away and go around again. Thereafter everything else was almost un avoidable, similar to someone falling off at the front of a cycle race peloton
My take on it is the white hulled yacht in 2nd place should not have tacked to try to get around the mark. Because they have no right of way when tacking and must keep clear when tacking. They should have had no option but to bear away and go around again. Thereafter everything else was almost un avoidable, similar to someone falling off at the front of a cycle race peloton
Beelzebub
Well-known member
A classic case of a truckload of boats not laying the mark, possibly due to a header. The shame is that even those on starboard who could lay the mark had to tack off because of all those boats that had tacked onto port. I'd imagine that several penalties were due here, starting with the boat that was initially in second place. He was within his rights to luff head to wind and try to shoot the mark but as soon as he was on port tack he lost all rights. He then fouled three starboard tack boats. After that, I suppose that the fouled boats having tacked onto port, would claim that they had no option and certainly had insufficient way on to avoid other incoming starboard tackers.
It would have made for an interesting protest meeting.
Channel Sailor
Active member
How about the yacht that was in 3rd place yacht briefly was on Port, as the 2nd place yacht loomed ahead, it then either broached (unlikely) head to wind or more likely tried to barge through aft of the 2nd place yacht by trying to tack onto Starboard but never made because it collected while head to wind the slowed 2nd place yacht. The 2nd place yacht slowing (or not speeding up) to avoid the 3rd then collected the 5th place yacht. If the 3rd place yacht had given the troubled 2nd place yacht room, then maybe could they use the protest room to claw back lost time and position. So had it been that 2nd and 3rd and were sorting themselves out on port away from the mark, 5th place boat could have just cleared the stern of 2nd place joined the rest of the fleet rounding the mark. So I would say 2nd place cocked it up, then 3rd place yacht made it an awful lot worse.
Beelzebub
Well-known member
You are correct:- the third placed boat tacked back onto starboard without giving the second placed boat (on port) sufficient time to keep clear. The boat in second place hadn't built up enough speed for proper steerage.
flaming
Well-known member
That was a broach. Those are RC44s with super skinny foils in 20 knots, and it looks like the runner didn't come off in the crash tack so main couldn't be eased. You can see from the wake behind, that it 's broach. Otherwise he'd have crossed the next starboard tack boat and probably been the next round the mark.
There's a fair few rule breakers there.... But I think all but boats 2, 3 and 5 (handily the 2 white boats and the broacher) could reasonably argue that they were compelled to break a rule by the actions of another boat.
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awol
Well-known member
The drone footage makes analysis easy, well, easier anyway. I am trying to imagine what each boat made of the mess unfolding, what the protest forms would have looked like and what the protest committee would have made of it all.
Perhaps all sailors need a drone in "follow me" mode but then we would need an addendum to the RRS to cover drone rights of way and collisions. Maybe solved with declared flight heights before the race.
Perhaps all sailors need a drone in "follow me" mode but then we would need an addendum to the RRS to cover drone rights of way and collisions. Maybe solved with declared flight heights before the race.
Birdseye
Well-known member
either there was a windshift or at least two of the boats couldnt lay the mark without tacking whatever the others were doinglittle doubt there was a wind shift. Mind you that video reminded me of a race where we and a gib sea 42(?) footer were abeam heading towards the mark we were due to round to starboard. I dont know what distracted the GibSea skipper but he attempted to round the mark to port just as we were rounding to starboard. Just managed to get between him and the mark without touching either. Good job - it was a large port can buoy.
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TLouth7
Active member
I think 4 is more guilty than 5 - they luffed (at 11 seconds) to shoot the mark*, closing any gap behind 2's stern and totally shutting 5 out. 5 was entitled to water on the obstruction, and it doesn't look like there was ever space for them to duck 4's stern. Once 4 luffed they had to go somewhere and that ended up being between 2 and 3.
*Possibly 4 intended to tack but bailed when 3 broached back onto starboard.
flaming
Well-known member
Small point but actually rule 19 does not apply in that situation, as the port tack boat does not count as an obstruction because the other boats are not required to keep clear of her.
So I'm pretty sure that 4 does not in fact break a rule.
But actually watching it back, I was probably wrong about 5. They would be in the clear because they were forced to break a rule by the actions of 2. I.e 2 being on port and not keeping clear.
lw395
Well-known member
I think there is one boat in there I wouldn't DSQ.
None of the others acted to avoid a collision.
None of the others acted to avoid a collision.
savageseadog
Well-known member
It's very poor sailing by some, very selfish and little regard for the rules
dunedin
Well-known member
And in that fleet suspect most of the key sailors are full time paid professionals ....
ckris
Member
Not rule 19, but surely boat 4 breaks 16.1?
I actually have sympathy with boat 2 and not sure they did anything wrong. I would call dsq for boat 4 (rule16.1), boat 3 (rule 13) with everyone else exonerated - open to be persuaded otherwise though.
Great piece of footage.
I actually have sympathy with boat 2 and not sure they did anything wrong. I would call dsq for boat 4 (rule16.1), boat 3 (rule 13) with everyone else exonerated - open to be persuaded otherwise though.
Great piece of footage.
lw395
Well-known member
Apart from th first boat that got clean away, I think there is a fairly clear case for DSQ's all round.
The more you watch it, the more you see every boat gambled and lost.
Powering in to a developing railway accident should not be an option.
As a piece of video, it's a great illustration that at the (alleged) top of our sport, there is a lot of money, limited talent and little respect for the basics of the rules. It's also bloody dangerous. If people sail like that in Picos, they can get bruised, sailing like that in big boats people could get seriously hurt or killed.
ckris
Member
OK, so under which rule(s) would you DSQ boat 2,5,6,7 and 8?
I know it looks horrible but in the context of rrs these boats either did not break a rule or have a strong case for being exonerated.....I think : )
Ingwe
Active member
I think that it is maximum of 4 Pro's on board - but it's an owner driver class so the helm has to be an amateur and is normally the owner of the boat, so doesn't necessarily get that much time to practice and may not have much experience of what to do when everything in front of them goes pair shaped.
lw395
Well-known member
Boat 2 failed to 'keep clear' while tacking.
Boat 5, you may have a point. Should they have seen the carnage evolving and slowed down?
She doesn't avoid contact, and it's dubious that she acted to avoid a collision the second it was apparent the port tackers were not going to keep clear.
6, 7 and 8 basically drove straight into what was clearly already a serious incident. If someone was hurt, they should have more to worry about than a discard.
Not knowing if any of the latter boats hailed for room to tack, treating the entangled boats as an obstruction, it's unclear.
The umpires don't come out of it looking useful either.
Boat 5, you may have a point. Should they have seen the carnage evolving and slowed down?
She doesn't avoid contact, and it's dubious that she acted to avoid a collision the second it was apparent the port tackers were not going to keep clear.
6, 7 and 8 basically drove straight into what was clearly already a serious incident. If someone was hurt, they should have more to worry about than a discard.
Not knowing if any of the latter boats hailed for room to tack, treating the entangled boats as an obstruction, it's unclear.
The umpires don't come out of it looking useful either.
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