When should I update my electronic charts?

tudorsailor

tudorsailor

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When I bought my yacht 18 months ago I bought new paper and electronic charts for the area in which we sail (Balearics). I thought I should now apply corrections to the paper charts and have printed them off the admiralty chart website with ease. The next question is when to upgrade the electronic charts. I have a Raymarine plotter using NT+ cartridge.

How often do others update their electronic charts?????

Tudorsailor
 
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The next question is when to upgrade the electronic charts.

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When you finally bring yourself to look out of the window or even go up on deck and see that the land does not match the electronic picture.
 
I correct paper charts each winter (traditionally on a cold wet Sunday sometime in Feb). I update e-charts (C-Map nt+) every other season.
 
July time is usually when the latest updated versions come out for cmap.

Paper charts I recommend at least update once a year either by yourself or a chart agent.

Electronics as long as you have up to date paperback ups (which you should do) every other season if you want to save money other wise once a year.

As one person already said Electronics are only an aid to navigation and shouldn't be 100% trusted
 
I will risk being shouted at for this, but I believe that most people do not update their electronic charts. In fact we know plenty of people who do not update their paper charts as well.

Tip taught us by another : If you see a mark or other that is not on your electronic chart, you can use Mark or other overlay item to mark it yourself, all you have to do is remember to call up that overlay when you use the chart.
 
I come across loads all the time that don't update either. Mr Insurance man is now catching on to this

People would rather risk their lives, families lives and crew lives than spend a couple hours updating their charts or spending a few quid getting it done.
 
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I come across loads all the time that don't update either. Mr Insurance man is now catching on to this

People would rather risk their lives, families lives and crew lives than spend a couple hours updating their charts or spending a few quid getting it done.



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Interesting that you are not only one to mention Mr. Insurance Man. Can anyone actually state a case where Mr. Insurance Man has made any claim void because of out of date charts ? Reason I ask is that I have never seen any reference by Insurance to carry charts and up to date.
 
Each insurance company have different policies. But I did read in a maritime magazine last year (can't remember name of mag) where an Insurance company recovered charts from an sunken boat and found them out of date which was the cause of the vessel to sink.

I spoke to a Yacht insurer last year as I was asked about this. They said it is something insurance companies are starting to bring more and more into policies

It's MCA and Solas carriage regulations for commercial vessels and passenger carrying vessels. And they are starting to bring this forward to the smaller vessels so I've been informed.

In my opinion why would anyone want to risk it?
 
Just interested to see if anyone can actually quote a specific case.
Still waiting /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Risk ? In fact talk to any Hudrographer and he will confirm that shallow waters are generally unreliable on charts as they are usually not surveyed to the extent of navigable channels and associated waters. Charts are produced not with leisure boaters as primary in mind.
And I never said or advised anyone to take the risk. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Why you winking at me?? I'm not your type lol

As for specific cases unless I can find the magazine I can't give you a word for word quote.

But I have spoken to an insurer and as I've said each insurance company have different policies. And if they take each cases as it comes. He did say that is becoming more common place now.

I've never spoken to an hudrographer but I have spoken to many Hydrographers and my best man is currently surveying on his companies boat and his information gets submitted to UKHO

But whether the charts are purposely created for leisure boaters in mind or commercial use their is reasons why New editions and updates are released and the majority of them are for Safety.

And to be honest the leisure chart industry is growing and the UKHO producing far more the leisure boaty than what they used to. In the 11 years I've been working in the chart world it has sprung more in the last 3 or 4 years.

I never said you said or advised anyone to take the risk it was my opinion

here have a wink back /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif lol
 
I don't update mine. The local ones are fine for pilotage, as I know the areas well enough. For long distance work, I buy freshly minted electronic charts, use them for the trip and sell them.

I don't use paper charts, other than for wallpaper /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Must remember to use spell-checker.
Given what you post, you must therefore know that all marine charts are generally based from same sources for any given area. That is UKHO Leisure Charts are reprinted from full-blown UKHO Adm Folios, but in a format more suited to the small boater. There is no surveying carried out extra for it.
NTM's and re-issue of charts along with Nav warnings are issued for express purpose of providing the most up to date and concise chart / publication possible. Agreed.
Interesting that Small Craft NTM's are issued at far less intervals than the weekly NTM's for Commercial Shipping. Asking Hubby who during his time at sea maintained full Adm. Folios on ships, his answer is that most corrections were near shore / coastlines. Whether they were significant enough to worry a yacht with their lesser draft is debatable. But Buoys and light changes surely would. (He's only giving me examples).
So you and I agree, but the question was actually whether Insurance Claim has been refused due to charts. I'm sure if anyone wanted to ask an insurer for their views on this, the answer would be Correct your charts or else. Understandable, they wish to lessen risk and also as usually the case, provide a route out of paying the claim. Checking our policy's old and new, haven't found any mention of charts. Maybe "seaworthy and suitable for use' or similar words to that effect can be used ? I don't know. Bit iffy though.
 
I have triple redundancy, so tits up a bit unlikely (maybe less likely than chart blowing out of hand in the cockpit?).

As well as the mainplotter (a Raymarine jobbie at the helm plus a slave screen at the nav station) I have a battery operated chartplotter and for good measure a PC with ARCS charts which can also run on the C-MAP charts that power the Raymarine thing.

I reckon that if triple redundancy plus no paper is good enough for commercial aircraft it is OK for me.

Plus that for most of my sailing around the south and west coasts I don't often look at the charts, as I know the area well enough to rely on mark one eyeball.
 
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Must remember to use spell-checker.
Given what you post, you must therefore know that all marine charts are generally based from same sources for any given area.

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Based on any sources that are in that area at any given time it's not always the same sources

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That is UKHO Leisure Charts are reprinted from full-blown UKHO Adm Folios, but in a format more suited to the small boater.

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Well the leisure editions are exactly the same chart as the SNC's but on thinner paper and folded it's the Leisure folio's which are in a slightly different format to the single charts.

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There is no surveying carried out extra for it.

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There isn't any need when there is plenty of detail on the charts produced by UKHO.



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NTM's and re-issue of charts along with Nav warnings are issued for express purpose of providing the most up to date and concise chart / publication possible. Agreed.

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More so for safety and prevention of vessel getting themselves into sticky situations.

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Interesting that Small Craft NTM's are issued at far less intervals than the weekly NTM's for Commercial Shipping.

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Why not just use the weekly NTM's they're free on the net and it's the same corrections?

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Asking Hubby who during his time at sea maintained full Adm. Folios on ships, his answer is that most corrections were near shore / coastlines.

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The majority of the updates are near the shore and coastline yes but there is a fair amount that aren't near the shore also. Middle of the north sea isn't that near a shore there are sheets with out shore line on yet they have a fair bit of updates needed adding for safety.



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Whether they were significant enough to worry a yacht with their lesser draft is debatable. But Buoys and light changes surely would. (He's only giving me examples).

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But if you didn't have the current edition which is what a lot use how would you know the changes that have been made to make the decision that it doesn't matter to my size yacht. You wouldn't know until you hit something that isn't marked on the chart.


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So you and I agree, but the question was actually whether Insurance Claim has been refused due to charts. I'm sure if anyone wanted to ask an insurer for their views on this, the answer would be Correct your charts or else. Understandable, they wish to lessen risk and also as usually the case, provide a route out of paying the claim. Checking our policy's old and new, haven't found any mention of charts. Maybe "seaworthy and suitable for use' or similar words to that effect can be used ? I don't know. Bit iffy though.

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The insurer said to me each company is different but more and more are cracking down on it. They'd take each case as it comes. Some would still pay out.

I've emailed another one today and waiting for their response to this very question.

But for the sake of the price of a new chart or updating it yourself if you don't want to pay why risk it is what I'm asking?
 
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I have triple redundancy, so tits up a bit unlikely (maybe less likely than chart blowing out of hand in the cockpit?).

As well as the mainplotter (a Raymarine jobbie at the helm plus a slave screen at the nav station) I have a battery operated chartplotter and for good measure a PC with ARCS charts which can also run on the C-MAP charts that power the Raymarine thing.

I reckon that if triple redundancy plus no paper is good enough for commercial aircraft it is OK for me.

Plus that for most of my sailing around the south and west coasts I don't often look at the charts, as I know the area well enough to rely on mark one eyeball.

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can your mark one eyeball see land marks in fog?? lol

As for the rest I'm glad you have 100% trust in electronics. Braver man than me lol
 
The relevant bit is contained in the Marine Insurance Act 1906 sec 39(5) which excludes liability if the ship is sent to sea in an unseaworthy condition with the privity of the assured.

Basic rule of insurance = Maximum premium, minimum pay out.

If the boat/ship is worth enough, claim large enough then your claim is at risk if you haven't followed the basic rules of seamanship.

A claim to recall. There was a bulk carrier dragged it's anchor over a pipe line off the coast near Redcar. They were banned from limiting their liability as the charts had not been corrected and the chart in use was many years out of date, but it was the Captain's favourite /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
And the paper charts will let you see through the fog /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ? At least a chartplotter will let you know where you are even if you can't see it....

I don't trust anything 100% but don't see how the addition of bits of paper will make me any safer than I am already.
 
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