Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Anybody know when Marine Projects gave up building Sigmas?
When did Sigma yachts cease being built?
- Thread starter Twister_Ken
- Start date
flaming
Well-Known Member
Early 90s I think.
Sailfree
Well-Known Member
Probably right early 90's.
David Wright who used to own Hamble School of Yachting mentioned to me in 1998 that he could still get Sigma 38's built but there has to be an order for at least 3 No. Not sure who he was talking to.
David Wright who used to own Hamble School of Yachting mentioned to me in 1998 that he could still get Sigma 38's built but there has to be an order for at least 3 No. Not sure who he was talking to.
flaming
Well-Known Member
And google gives the answer...
From the Sigma 38 class website.
[ QUOTE ]
History
In 1985 the Royal Ocean Racing Club and the Royal Thames Yacht Club agreed to sponsor a new One Design and commissioned top yacht designers, including Rob Humphries, Stephen Jones and David Thomas. The designers put forward proposals to some of the top yachtsmen of the day and the decision was made to adopt the design of David Thomas who had already designed the successful Sigma 33. Built by Marine projects in Plymouth with a sail wardrobe from North Sails the Sigma 38 became extremely popular, costing around 60,000 pounds plus the dreaded VAT. Marine Projects built a total of 124 yachts. Northshore Yachts at Itchenor built the last Sigma 38 in 1993. Large fleets were established in Scotland, Ireland, on the East Coast and particularly on the South Coast. The Class Association was established in 1988. Many changes, including introducing new sail makers, have been introduced to the rules to maintain the competitive nature of the fleet.
[/ QUOTE ]
Or sort of. States that northshore built the last one, but no mention of when Marine projects gave up.
From the Sigma 38 class website.
[ QUOTE ]
History
In 1985 the Royal Ocean Racing Club and the Royal Thames Yacht Club agreed to sponsor a new One Design and commissioned top yacht designers, including Rob Humphries, Stephen Jones and David Thomas. The designers put forward proposals to some of the top yachtsmen of the day and the decision was made to adopt the design of David Thomas who had already designed the successful Sigma 33. Built by Marine projects in Plymouth with a sail wardrobe from North Sails the Sigma 38 became extremely popular, costing around 60,000 pounds plus the dreaded VAT. Marine Projects built a total of 124 yachts. Northshore Yachts at Itchenor built the last Sigma 38 in 1993. Large fleets were established in Scotland, Ireland, on the East Coast and particularly on the South Coast. The Class Association was established in 1988. Many changes, including introducing new sail makers, have been introduced to the rules to maintain the competitive nature of the fleet.
[/ QUOTE ]
Or sort of. States that northshore built the last one, but no mention of when Marine projects gave up.
jamesjermain
Well-Known Member
Sigma Yachts was a marketting division of Marine Projects who built them alongside Moodys to give them a presence in the lucrative cruiser racer/one design market of the late 70s (the first model was, needless to say, the Sigma 33 of 1978). Sigma was merged with Moody in around 1988 and production ceased in 1992 or maybe 1993. Popular models included the 33, 36/360, 38 and 41. Less successful were the 29/292 and 35. The cruising version of the of the 33, the 33c also had limited appeal.
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Thanks JJ.
FullCircle
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Sigma Yachts was a marketting division of Marine Projects who built them alongside Moodys to give them a presence in the lucrative cruiser racer/one design market of the late 70s (the first model was, needless to say, the Sigma 33 of 1978). Sigma was merged with Moody in around 1988 and production ceased in 1992 or maybe 1993. Popular models included the 33, 36/360, 38 and 41. Less successful were the 29/292 and 35. The cruising version of the of the 33, the 33c also had limited appeal.
[/ QUOTE ]
No mention of the 400?
Sigma Yachts was a marketting division of Marine Projects who built them alongside Moodys to give them a presence in the lucrative cruiser racer/one design market of the late 70s (the first model was, needless to say, the Sigma 33 of 1978). Sigma was merged with Moody in around 1988 and production ceased in 1992 or maybe 1993. Popular models included the 33, 36/360, 38 and 41. Less successful were the 29/292 and 35. The cruising version of the of the 33, the 33c also had limited appeal.
[/ QUOTE ]
No mention of the 400?
doris
Well-Known Member
Northshore bought the moulds for the 38 and built one on speck in about 1995/6. They wanted £120k which didn't really work when a 2nd hand one cost about £60 for a good one. They eventually sold it for about £80k I believe. It was built a la Northshore and very nice, way and above the best 38 ever but times had moved on and Sigma needed to be built to a price not a quality.
Still amazing that this year is the 21st birthday of the fleet and it is still unrivalled.
Still amazing that this year is the 21st birthday of the fleet and it is still unrivalled.
flaming
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Still amazing that this year is the 21st birthday of the fleet and it is still unrivalled.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pretty sure that the First 40.7s and J109s would have something to say about that!
Still amazing that this year is the 21st birthday of the fleet and it is still unrivalled.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pretty sure that the First 40.7s and J109s would have something to say about that!
doris
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Still amazing that this year is the 21st birthday of the fleet and it is still unrivalled.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pretty sure that the First 40.7s and J109s would have something to say about that!
[/ QUOTE ]
The J109 is at the top of their game at the moment and don't begin to approach the S38 at the top of theirs. In 15 years time how many 109s will be about ? Even today the 109 fleet is no bigger that the current S38 one. (he says, ducking below the parapet) The 40.5, I can't remember how big the fleet is.
[ QUOTE ]
Still amazing that this year is the 21st birthday of the fleet and it is still unrivalled.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pretty sure that the First 40.7s and J109s would have something to say about that!
[/ QUOTE ]
The J109 is at the top of their game at the moment and don't begin to approach the S38 at the top of theirs. In 15 years time how many 109s will be about ? Even today the 109 fleet is no bigger that the current S38 one. (he says, ducking below the parapet) The 40.5, I can't remember how big the fleet is.
flaming
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Still amazing that this year is the 21st birthday of the fleet and it is still unrivalled.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pretty sure that the First 40.7s and J109s would have something to say about that!
[/ QUOTE ]
The J109 is at the top of their game at the moment and don't begin to approach the S38 at the top of theirs. In 15 years time how many 109s will be about ? Even today the 109 fleet is no bigger that the current S38 one. (he says, ducking below the parapet) The 40.5, I can't remember how big the fleet is.
[/ QUOTE ]
"Even to day the 109 fleet is no bigger than the current S38 fleet"
Whilst I have no connection to the 109s, that's simply not true! Not in terms of boats that actually go racing, rather than exist anyway.
Some numbers
Cowes week 2008
Sigma 38s - 18
J109s - 39
40.7s - 42
Round the Island Race
Sigma 38s - 25 (+4 unrated in ISC)
J109s - 34
40.7 - 46
Hamble winter series
Sigma 38s - 11
J109s - 23
40.7s - 6
2008 national championships
Sigma 38s - 10
J109s - 32
40.7s - 14
2007 Fastnet
Sigma 38s - 16 (1 finisher)
J109s - 10 (1 finisher)
40.7s - 24 (5 finishers)
So no, the Sigmas are not still more numerous that the 109s, or the 40.7s in general racing events. Only offshore are their more 38s than 109s, which is not a huge suprise as of the sigmas are a popular choice with sailing schools for fastnet boats.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Still amazing that this year is the 21st birthday of the fleet and it is still unrivalled.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pretty sure that the First 40.7s and J109s would have something to say about that!
[/ QUOTE ]
The J109 is at the top of their game at the moment and don't begin to approach the S38 at the top of theirs. In 15 years time how many 109s will be about ? Even today the 109 fleet is no bigger that the current S38 one. (he says, ducking below the parapet) The 40.5, I can't remember how big the fleet is.
[/ QUOTE ]
"Even to day the 109 fleet is no bigger than the current S38 fleet"
Whilst I have no connection to the 109s, that's simply not true! Not in terms of boats that actually go racing, rather than exist anyway.
Some numbers
Cowes week 2008
Sigma 38s - 18
J109s - 39
40.7s - 42
Round the Island Race
Sigma 38s - 25 (+4 unrated in ISC)
J109s - 34
40.7 - 46
Hamble winter series
Sigma 38s - 11
J109s - 23
40.7s - 6
2008 national championships
Sigma 38s - 10
J109s - 32
40.7s - 14
2007 Fastnet
Sigma 38s - 16 (1 finisher)
J109s - 10 (1 finisher)
40.7s - 24 (5 finishers)
So no, the Sigmas are not still more numerous that the 109s, or the 40.7s in general racing events. Only offshore are their more 38s than 109s, which is not a huge suprise as of the sigmas are a popular choice with sailing schools for fastnet boats.
PeteCooper
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sigma Yachts was a marketting division of Marine Projects who built them alongside Moodys to give them a presence in the lucrative cruiser racer/one design market of the late 70s (the first model was, needless to say, the Sigma 33 of 1978). Sigma was merged with Moody in around 1988 and production ceased in 1992 or maybe 1993. Popular models included the 33, 36/360, 38 and 41. Less successful were the 29/292 and 35. The cruising version of the of the 33, the 33c also had limited appeal.
[/ QUOTE ]
No mention of the 400?
[/ QUOTE ]
Or the Sigma 8 - admittedly not built by MP, but still marketed as a Sigma.
[ QUOTE ]
Sigma Yachts was a marketting division of Marine Projects who built them alongside Moodys to give them a presence in the lucrative cruiser racer/one design market of the late 70s (the first model was, needless to say, the Sigma 33 of 1978). Sigma was merged with Moody in around 1988 and production ceased in 1992 or maybe 1993. Popular models included the 33, 36/360, 38 and 41. Less successful were the 29/292 and 35. The cruising version of the of the 33, the 33c also had limited appeal.
[/ QUOTE ]
No mention of the 400?
[/ QUOTE ]
Or the Sigma 8 - admittedly not built by MP, but still marketed as a Sigma.
doris
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Still amazing that this year is the 21st birthday of the fleet and it is still unrivalled.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pretty sure that the First 40.7s and J109s would have something to say about that!
[/ QUOTE ]
The J109 is at the top of their game at the moment and don't begin to approach the S38 at the top of theirs. In 15 years time how many 109s will be about ? Even today the 109 fleet is no bigger that the current S38 one. (he says, ducking below the parapet) The 40.5, I can't remember how big the fleet is.
[/ QUOTE ]
"Even to day the 109 fleet is no bigger than the current S38 fleet"
Whilst I have no connection to the 109s, that's simply not true! Not in terms of boats that actually go racing, rather than exist anyway.
Some numbers
Cowes week 2008
Sigma 38s - 18
J109s - 39
40.7s - 42
Round the Island Race
Sigma 38s - 25 (+4 unrated in ISC)
J109s - 34
40.7 - 46
Hamble winter series
Sigma 38s - 11
J109s - 23
40.7s - 6
2008 national championships
Sigma 38s - 10
J109s - 32
40.7s - 14
2007 Fastnet
Sigma 38s - 16 (1 finisher)
J109s - 10 (1 finisher)
40.7s - 24 (5 finishers)
So no, the Sigmas are not still more numerous that the 109s, or the 40.7s in general racing events. Only offshore are their more 38s than 109s, which is not a huge suprise as of the sigmas are a popular choice with sailing schools for fastnet boats.
[/ QUOTE ]
I stand corrected. Back below the parapet.
I am curious as to how many S38s there were in their fleet, say 15 years ago. Must go and do some work now but maybe might have a dig later.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Still amazing that this year is the 21st birthday of the fleet and it is still unrivalled.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pretty sure that the First 40.7s and J109s would have something to say about that!
[/ QUOTE ]
The J109 is at the top of their game at the moment and don't begin to approach the S38 at the top of theirs. In 15 years time how many 109s will be about ? Even today the 109 fleet is no bigger that the current S38 one. (he says, ducking below the parapet) The 40.5, I can't remember how big the fleet is.
[/ QUOTE ]
"Even to day the 109 fleet is no bigger than the current S38 fleet"
Whilst I have no connection to the 109s, that's simply not true! Not in terms of boats that actually go racing, rather than exist anyway.
Some numbers
Cowes week 2008
Sigma 38s - 18
J109s - 39
40.7s - 42
Round the Island Race
Sigma 38s - 25 (+4 unrated in ISC)
J109s - 34
40.7 - 46
Hamble winter series
Sigma 38s - 11
J109s - 23
40.7s - 6
2008 national championships
Sigma 38s - 10
J109s - 32
40.7s - 14
2007 Fastnet
Sigma 38s - 16 (1 finisher)
J109s - 10 (1 finisher)
40.7s - 24 (5 finishers)
So no, the Sigmas are not still more numerous that the 109s, or the 40.7s in general racing events. Only offshore are their more 38s than 109s, which is not a huge suprise as of the sigmas are a popular choice with sailing schools for fastnet boats.
[/ QUOTE ]
I stand corrected. Back below the parapet.
I am curious as to how many S38s there were in their fleet, say 15 years ago. Must go and do some work now but maybe might have a dig later.
jamesjermain
Well-Known Member
Sorry, missed the 400 but I can't remember the 8.
flaming
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I stand corrected. Back below the parapet.
I am curious as to how many S38s there were in their fleet, say 15 years ago. Must go and do some work now but maybe might have a dig later.
[/ QUOTE ]
No problem, that was quite an interesting exercise, and has got me thinking.
Most interesting thing about those numbers is the way the 109s stay quite similar where the S38 and 40.7 vary wildly. I suspect this is due to the S38 and 40.7 being popular charter boats, so big fleets for popular events, wheras 109s are currently in the "owner raced" phase of their development so come out for more races. Especially interesting that Sigmas and 40.7s can get fleets of 25 and 42 for RTI, but only 10 and 14 for nationals.
I stand corrected. Back below the parapet.
I am curious as to how many S38s there were in their fleet, say 15 years ago. Must go and do some work now but maybe might have a dig later.
[/ QUOTE ]
No problem, that was quite an interesting exercise, and has got me thinking.
Most interesting thing about those numbers is the way the 109s stay quite similar where the S38 and 40.7 vary wildly. I suspect this is due to the S38 and 40.7 being popular charter boats, so big fleets for popular events, wheras 109s are currently in the "owner raced" phase of their development so come out for more races. Especially interesting that Sigmas and 40.7s can get fleets of 25 and 42 for RTI, but only 10 and 14 for nationals.
flaming
Well-Known Member
Sigma 8 metre
jamesjermain
Well-Known Member
Ah! Yes, the carbon fibre Peterson design for Shipman, badged the Sigma over here - not really part of the British Sigma family
flaming
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure the 8metres were not carbon....
jamesjermain
Well-Known Member
You may be right but I'm sure it had carbon about it somewhere
doris
Well-Known Member
[Most interesting thing about those numbers is the way the 109s stay quite similar where the S38 and 40.7 vary wildly. I suspect this is due to the S38 and 40.7 being popular charter boats, so big fleets for popular events, wheras 109s are currently in the "owner raced" phase of their development so come out for more races. Especially interesting that Sigmas and 40.7s can get fleets of 25 and 42 for RTI, but only 10 and 14 for nationals.
[/ QUOTE ]
The J109 is a much more expensive boat than the other two ever were and also needs a smaller crew. I would be surprised if J composites build quality would withstand the bashing that the charter Sigmas and Bennys get. Both the latter give huge bang for the buck.
[/ QUOTE ]
The J109 is a much more expensive boat than the other two ever were and also needs a smaller crew. I would be surprised if J composites build quality would withstand the bashing that the charter Sigmas and Bennys get. Both the latter give huge bang for the buck.